That’s exactly my point. If you are a rec paddler, the last person you want to get boat buying advice from is an expert paddler. He’s going to steer you toward a boat that is over your head.
I’ve gotten most of my canoe and kayak specific design information from a guy named Johnathan Winters (hope I got that right). Look him up. If I’m wrong, I’m going to blame him.
Willoleaf may be a great paddler, that doesn’t mean she’s the best person to get boat advice from. Or Celia, for that matter. There are people that design canoes and kayaks. They are probably the best people to get advice from.
All I’m saying is that the difference between a top of the line rec boat and the bottom of the line touring boat isn’t much. In fact, the top rec boat from one company could be more seaworthy than the bottom touring boat from another company. What’s so hard to believe about that?
The “ignore” option is a beautiful thing.
I’d be interested to see your examples of this.
My theory on getting information is a little different. I take it from every direction I can get it from and remain thankful people are offering advice good bad or indifferent. At the same time I’m doing my own search for written or posted information and piece it all together on what I think fits my needs best. People may know a lot more than me but they don’t know what my needs are better than myself. Then I thank everyone equally and do what I think is best and live with my choice or start over.
The other day someone was asking for idea on how to hang and lift their boat to the ceiling of their garage for winter. I had been think about this myself with needing to do that this winter. I told them I was going to use two hook cam straps to eye hooks in the ceiling and just pull it up a little at a time from each end with a couple straps around it at mid points. Then to let it down repeat only working the cam while someone else hold the weight back. Instead of saying thanks but I don’t think I like that idea the OP basically tells me I’m stupid and going to kill myself and wreck my boat. I could have went at it but what is the point. You ask for free advice and someone gives it you got what you paid for.
The first day you were here lamenting on how much you didn’t like the SOT you bought and how unstable it was I suggested an OT rec-kayak that sounded just like what would suit your needs. You dismissed the idea abruptly and went off in the direction of pack canoes and other things. I didn’t care you asked for some free advice and I gave you some and now after a several months you just got a rec-kayak. Hope it works out for your needs. I wish you well.
bud16415:
The SOT was a failed experiment.
What appealed to me was the fact that I was on top of the boat, and not trapped inside, and it was self bailing. I blew off the whole kayak idea and went back to canoes.
I would have bought a canoe too anyway, because I needed a solo boat for multiday trips with a heavy load. No kayak, certainly not a rec kayak, can do that.
When I realized I still wanted a kayak of some sort, but not an SOT, the Loon came to the top of my list. I had to go through that whole process. I couldn’t make the mental jump from the SOT directly to the Loon. I wasn’t be stubborn or a jerk, it just took me a while to get there.
I haven’t been on the forums that long but I have seen lots of good friendly advice given out regarding rec kayaks, not just “buy a sea kayak instead”. I have only seen push back when the discussions clearly showed that the type of paddling or paddler experience did not match the type of boat or budget being discussed. There have even been good SOT recommendations in threads, and those things are frightful /s 
Seriously though, I love that experienced amazing paddlers are in this forum talking to people about all types of boats just because they love paddling and want new users to love it to. The best boat is the one that gets you out on the water and our goal should be to help people do that safely and also acknowledge that everyone’s tolerance for risk is different.
I would be a little worried about threads created to defend against arguments from other threads as all it does is move the drama up to the forefront and make it more visible to new users. Mind you I am posting in it so 
I really like the Headwaters videos and have shared those a lot. The J Baikoff videos on inflatable kayaks are good too. Kayak Hipster has also done some comparison videos, as has PaddleTV. Lots of good resources out there.
These two comments seem to be contradiction. We shouldn’t make fun of YOU (or at least folks with “highly rated” boats) but, it’s ok to disparage others’ choices? Aren’t Pelican owners enjoying being on the water in boats that meet their needs, skills, knowledge and budget?
I strongly suggest that you spend some time in the Pungo on other than a mattress before posting a lot more about boats…
My first two kayaks were higher end rec boats and I “quickly realized their limitations” as my desire too learn more and go further increased. Both were adequate for someone who just wanted to get out and paddle around with no great ambition to do anything else.
This site has been an incredible source of wisdom and knowledge that has ushered me towards the gear and equipment that I currently have. My latest boat is one that I can grow into and I am well aware that it is capable of things that I am not ready to attempt. I expect to be using it for years to come.
That being said, I would like to thank everybody who has taken their time to come here and offer advice to help those like me to be safer and enjoy this sport more and more. 
As one of those new users on this forum, I am mesmerized by this whole thing. I’m practically sitting here eating popcorn, wondering what will be next. I see a lot of valuable information here, but I must say that ALL of the new threads are being started by the same person, on the same topic, mainly for the purpose of argument and self-justification. It’s like watching a train wreck. I’ve been lurking, just waiting for it to all blow up. Anyway, that is this newbie’s take on things
That being said, I (we) started kayaking a few years ago. Hubby and I are both inexperienced, but are enjoying ourselves learning. We started with two well-used boats that we got for super-cheap from the local University’s outdoor program. Both patched and leaky from being dragged, but that was fixable. One is a Pungo (an older one - 2010 if I remember correctly). No front bulkhead. Hope they have fixed that? Stable, but actually hard for me to get into, because it is so wide - difficult for me to reach the center (I’m 5’-6”, with short legs). The one time I dumped it on a river, I had gotten hung up on a log trying to give a wading fisherman plenty of space (did I mention I am not very experienced?) and tipped just enough to let water in the front of the huge cockpit. Once that started, I could NOT get upright enough to keep it from just filling up and rolling over. Not a big deal, as it was fairly shallow and slow moving. No worries about ever getting trapped in that thing! The harder thing was getting enough water out and getting back in. Anyway, the older Pungo is okay, but not my dream boat by any means. It was a great starter boat to figure out if we liked kayaking, and we could take our 45-lb dog with us. This year I upgraded to an Eddyline Skylark, which is worlds better. Still a rec boat, but a much nicer one. Faster, lighter, better-equipped, turns and tracks better, just a lot more enjoyable. I wanted a 12-footer for rivers and small lakes, but next year I want to get something a little more sea worthy, so I plan to add a touring boat.
Glad to hear you are enjoying yourselves! Paddling is a great activity.
You verified why having bulkheads is so strongly recommended,
Most rec kayaks lack any bulkheads, let alone both fore and aft ones,
The first time my husband and I practiced wet exits and PF re-entries, his Loon138 with no bulkheads flooded so quickly and fully that both of us could not pump out enough water to right it, let alone allow re-entry. I swam it to shore, where we were able to use two pumps to get out enough water to paddle in.
My own Castine, which did have both bulkheads, I was able to pump out enough to flip over.
Neither of these models is junk, but the one without bulkheads is not even close to seaworthy. The one with bulkheads is a bit better, but still unsuitable for rough water. Flat and wide bottoms are LESS stable when the water takes on nonhorizontal shapes.
Your ability and willingness to learn from experience and other people’s advice indicates that you can pick up skills quickly. And be a nice person to paddle with, too. Good luck, and keep us posted on your growing adventures in paddling. Yes, getting swamped and figuring out how to avoid it again qualifies as an adventure, right at home!
Canoes are much the same as rec-kayaks in terms of added floatation and swamped will be impossible to drain on the water and reenter. Canoes like rec-kayaks are widely popular and get taken into places where self-rescue is questionable.
We have one of each and I thought a lot about what a person could do to improve the situation of capsizing and at very least make an assisted rescue possible or if solo with proper PFD saving both yourself and your boat swimming it in righting it and moving on. It goes without saying being dressed for immersion in colder water is also vitally important.
I rigged both my canoe and her kayak with enough sturdy positive floatation to accomplish that and IMO made great safety improvements to both boats using tough inexpensive yoga balls. I started a thread on the topic with photos depicting all the process of doing this for canoes and rec-kayaks without flotation or with partial flotation as ours had a stern bulkhead and sealed hatch. The thread sat without comment for over 3 months and when I linked it for someone in another thread asking for floatation help it got a few replies. My conclusion is most people that could benefit by something like that are not reading these forums and those that do read here are past entry level rec-boats. As someone posted to that thread you are preaching to the choir.
I also built an assisted two boat coupling stirrup we use for between the canoe and rec-kayak that showed little interest as the folks that could benefit are not the ones posting here for the most part. My belief is there are a lot of non posters reading of rec-boats and following threads like this one. So I’m hopeful some people are picking up on some of these safety concerns.
Hey, welcome! Glad you are no longer just lurking. I got fantastic advice on this forum as a newbie, and continue to get fantastic advice as a slightly advanced beginner. Anyone who comes on here wanting to learn and open to accepting knowledge from much more experienced paddlers can benefit greatly. Enjoy your paddling (and your popcorn;)
Nice choice, your Skylark. I admire Eddyline for installing sealed bulkheads fore and aft in all of their boats, even the tiny 10-foot Sandpiper.
My second kayak was an Eddyline Skylark. I took my ACA L-1 class paddling the Skylark and learned how to self-rescue using a paddle float. Since the Level 1 is held on flat water, I was able to pump out some of the water from the cockpit then paddle the boat to shore. That was an interesting, experience.
Enjoy!
Looks good - go just as is
How does one cross the Atlantic and end up in the Pacific(?)
So many things come into play buying a boat. You can only buy what you’ll afford, transport or store. Your first step started as a member of this forum. If you become frustrated with elitist or snob opinions, realize that they probably went through the same painful soul searching and are trying to save you the frustration.
I’ve taken out friends who thought kayaking would be fun. They paddle two miles, and stop because their arms hurt; trip over, because you have to pack your boat. They should’ve rented, which is a good way to test boats, if they had no desire to learn or venture out and explore. They make paddleboards and SOTs to play. If you want to be an avid kayaker, you need to research. Learn about hull speed, safe/maximum capacity, if you plan to pack camping gear or transport washing machines to your island cabin. Above all, be aware that even lake paddling can be challenging. The Susquehanna has dammed sections that are more than a mile across. like Conowingo and Wrightsville, below York. Launching in flat water, you can cross to the wind protected bird sanctuary islands. Within one or two hours, a north wind can churn up 18 inch waves. If you boat speed is only 2 mph and you’re on the opposite side, cutting you speed to 1 mph could be serious, especially if your arms get tired after 2 mile. That’s why experience kayaker get sarcastic; they know what can happen.
If you start out as a rec boater, the boat lacks feature that allow you to explore beyond flat water. The short waterline will limits the speed potential, the wide beam makes paddling harder, and there is no margin of error if conditions deteriorate. The risk is that you may tire of kayaking before you even begin. It’s like buying a poorly fitted, heavy bike with bad geometry. You’ll never want to go beyond 7 miles, while century riders look at you with your knees bumping your handlebars and think - poor sap.
Any boat is safe if the water won’t cause hypothermia, if you wear an approved vest, don’t exceed the design parameters of the boat, and stay within easy reach of land without fear of current carrying you out to open water or over the precipice of short but dangerous feeder dam. Like the ones on the Potomac River.
First decide where you want to go and what you want to do: fish, explore, ride surf at the ocean beach, take pictures on a 5 mile long lake. You don’t need a sea kayak for everything, but if you live near a body of water, take advantage of it.
My niece and her husband, who has a disability, just bought 120 and 140 Pungos. She gets tired after 3 miles, he likes to take pictures. Getting the boats on a roof rack is tough for them, but they do it. I plan to install bulkheads and seal them with Lexel. I’ll also install perimeter deck rope for safety, but it’s still a Pungo. My nephew went from 300 lbs to 230 lbs and tried kayaking for exercise. He bought a Dolohin or some such device. Afyer about 10 trips, he stepped up to a used 145 Tsunami. In over a month, he has become a power house. He drives from York, PA and is working toward open water by circling Pooles Island (16.5 miles) then across the Bay to Fairlee Creek (21.5 miles). It’s very rewarding for me to see, and he started in a barge just a month and a half ago. I think money well spent.
I started a trip and hooked up with a guy about 2 miles out, in an imaculate Impex Asseteague 17’10. He had it for many years and mostly paddled on lakes. Living in north Baltimore, about 30 minutes drive, it was his first time on the Chesapeake Bay. When we departed on divergent course, he effortlessly pullied away from my cargo boat. Then he turned around just before entering the dicey waves of the open bay - no ininterest in how his boat performed. People use that boats on the ocean. I wept. Some people shouldn’t have nice things.
It would seem that he owns a boat that gives him pleasure while paddling in the manner he chooses. I see no problem with that.
Not sure I agree SOTconvert. Forums are tough. We call it free speech, and it can be painful. I told my kids, if nobody tells you that you’re stupid, how will you ever know. Now that they’re older, its regrettable that they remember me saying that. No harm done. There are no dumb questions. Unless they’re really dumb. That’s why posts are anonymous, I think or hope! So say what you think, and don’t be intimidated. I have seen post asking question that are just attempts to validate a predetermined conclusion. Understand that it isn’t fair to ask a question then blow it off. At the same time, if you ask a question about a rec boat, the experience kayaker should realize you aren’t interested in a $3,600 sea kayak. If you go to a car dealer to buy a Nissan Vera, I bet a box of donuts that you won’t be talked into a red Ferrari. I agree with someone who said opinions should be based on experience.
I don’t have the skill or stamina of some forum members. If a person ventures out on the ocean using a three inch stick to propel a 19 foot boat that’s 21inch wide, with the top only inches above the water I can accept a scoff in exchange for an honest, relevant answer. In comparison, my boat is a barge, but it serves my needs, it handles my paddling environment, I have absolute confidence in it and I know what I like, so if a snob laughs, so be it, but I won’t be cowed. There are so many posts, discard the ones that aren’t helpful. Done.
I remember the names that have done more than answer a question. I value posts that stimulate my interest to explore, make me re-evaluate my stance or defend my position. You only feel that your hands are course and your boots are thick, if you’re ashamed. Don’t be. What would we do if they stopped subscribing because its beneath them to interact with mere mortals. I’ve yet to see any braggadocio. Just strong opinions.