Little Feat had it:
Well you know when you’re over the hill when your mind’s makin’ promises your body can’t fill.
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PJC I’ve been there a while now. I feel like the character leaning against a door with the large sign - PULL. I figured it out when I moved my hand and revealed the U. Then the sentence made sense.
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If I did those things, I would. I haven’t been in a kayak in years, although I did enjoy surfing my Delphin 155 when I had it.
Always wear your helmet if you going to “hook up” with a “Texas twister”…
NO! I ain’t talkin’ about a hurricaine, tornado, or dust devil !!!
BOB
P.S. If you don’t know what a Texas twister is; don’t worry about it. It’ll be a new risk taking, and learning experience for you.
Check out Little Feat’s "Texas "twister videos on utube.
I was just pondering how many of the reported drownings while wearing a pfd (or not) might actually have hypothermia as a contributing factor? I realize the data doesn’t specify, but time of year might give good hints. It’s horrifying how often I see people paddling who are clearly not dressed for immersion. Water temperatures are already starting to drop a little bit here, and this is when I start monitoring them more closely. I once became hypothermic on a 72 degree early Fall day when the water temp was 76. We were practicing rolls and rescues. Thankfully we were prepared with extra dry clothes, including warm fleece. I start busting out the neoprene much sooner than most people I know since that happened. I almost did last week.
Nice point pru. Hypothermia rates from wet clothes alone are eye opening, and immersion only makes it worse.
Google search for this article, it provides some insight even without the hard numbers.
Not just hypothermia (which tends to be progressive) but cold immersion shock, which can create both immediate gasp reflex and to rapid lack of muscle control and “brain fade.” Add in the flailing panic that many people instinctively revert to when they find themselves immersed and I think a lot of deaths are inevitable when people are flushed out of the false security of watercraft and sort of self-drown.
I am not a strong, fast or graceful swimmer. But I know my own buoyancy, how to relax, stay afloat and then assess what I need to do to either regain my boat or head to the nearest shore, with or without the boat. As a result, I am not afaid of deep or rough water nor of having my face under it at times. Buoyancy does help — during my PADI course and on any SCUBA dives it always took a bunch of lead to keep me neutral instead of bobbing to the surface like a bubble (especially in a full wetsuit.). apparently I am like a human cork, light-boned but curvy, and maybe an airhead.
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I have paddled in waters that even with safety gear like helmet and flotation device had a much higher risk than other situations where I didn’t wear anything except my shorts and a shirt. I have also paddled in groups with higher risk than when soloing. Risk management is more complex than simply following a given procedure and also more complex than reducing the risk so much as you can. The latter will normally come at a cost by not achieving goal. The lowest risk is probably staying away from water, always sitting at home with a helmet and PFD in a cupboard with closed doors and being feed by someone else 4 times a day. But we still enter our kayaks and canoes. There is a balancing between probability of something happening, the ,cost of that happening and the benefits of taking that risk to achieve a goal. Cost versus benefit and the probability of failing versus succeeding.
If I am on a beach swimming I don’t wear a PFD. I wouldn’t assume that the risk would rise just because I climbed into a canoe on that beach and therefore I wouldn’t consider putting on a PFD. I am still in the beach swimming even if it involves some paddling. If I however is planning to go away from the beach towards the open sea things could change dramatically, but even that would be in a way independent on whether I was in a canoe/kayak or swimming (and probably the swimmer would heighten the risk the most, still not required by law to wear a PFD even if the canoer/kayaker is, at least in my country) So maybe in that situation I should put on a PFD whether I was swimming or paddling. But what if I was trying to swim across the English channel? Would it even be possible with the drag of a PFD? Or would I have to find some other means to lower risk? For example have a boat following, or even throw away the plans for doing it? I don’t think risk assessment can be done strictly procedural. One have to assess the risk in the concrete situation, and sometimes one will have to accept higher risks than other times in order to achieve a high valued goal.
Just my thoughts.
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Lots of paddling experience in this photo… 120 miles of darkness and fatigue along fast river and lakes. Risk evaluation is paramount to the equation. I have capsized in this event, practice it and am prepared when it happens.
That said, I would never advocate to someone to not wear a PFD.
I was mildly amused at the irony after an event one time as a gentleman was criticizing us for not wearing PFDs while enjoying his multiple scotch and sodas. We all make choices and assume risks.
I find it troubling whenever there is a rescue or fatality, the “always PFD” advocates rubber neck the scene looking for the PFD status and can’t wait to point out if they weren’t. I think that is a failed approach as there maybe(and likely) other contributing factors that now may get overlooked or overshadowed because someone wasn’t wearing a pfd.
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I think I need a better headwear solution to help prevent this. I currently have a neoprene skull cap that covers my ears, and I wear a wool hat over it, but I am going to get a neoprene balaclava this year so my neck and most of my face are also covered.
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As I’ve pointed out, while never advocating for not wearing a PFD, the “always PFD” can lead to an incomplete and therefore inaccurate risk assessement. Now, you raise an excellent point that “always PFD” can lead to an incomplete and therefore inaccurate assessment of an incident. This is not about not wearing a PFD it is about looking beyond and more thoroughly than “always”.
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Things change was the point. You have a PFD on they usually find you. No PFD people keep looking for you for days.
I’m going to relate my story here after just a few days being a member here. It was ether our 2nd or 3rd time on the river with our new paddle boats and we did about a 6 hour ride on our river and I was relating our experience and what a great time we had.
In my telling I mentioned we left early and after about 3 hours wanted to stop for lunch. The banks were steep and muddy it was blazing hot day and the few places we thought about stopping that were rocky and flat were also full sun. I spotted a shade tree overhanging the river and the water was a foot or less deep and suggested we have lunch in the boats. We pulled to the side. It was a wonderful spot nice shade a good breeze and no bugs. We tied off to a limb and rafted our boats together so we were facing. Took off the PFDs and let them air out while we enjoyed the cool breeze and our drinks and sandwiches and chatted.
I didn’t really feel we had done anything wrong we had our PFDs on the whole way as the water depth and speed varied between 6” and 10’ and 2MPH and maybe 5MPH.
My risk assessment of being static and tied off in a foot of water was very low. Years of fishing in power boats I knew when we would stop on calm water anchored in Lake Erie we would often not wear a PFD and this felt much the same.
The responses to my relating our day on the water mainly were about taking the PFD off for lunch and how the responders with many years of experience would never do such a thing. I didn’t offer replies as like everyone here figured the zero tolerance policy was really an ok opinion to have as if you always have one on I figured you would never be in a position to wish you had. Even though I’m perfectly able to do my own risk management.
What I think is ironic as we ate lunch that day I would guess a dozen boats passed us with no one wearing a PFD.
I agree, of course. Its a fine idea to wear a PFD. I’d never advise against it. Things have changed for the better in that its common practice now, though for may hundreds of years (ten thousand + if you count native American history) prior it wasn’t. Even 50 years ago it wasn’t.
All I’m suggesting is that its probably unwise for us to get apoplectic, or anything like it, when we see others doing what paddlers have done for over ten thousand years before us. It hurts us more than its likely to change them. Please understand - I’m not in favor of nonPFD use. I just try to accept that others may, probably foolishly, choose to take risks I don’t. And I trust that with experience many of them will come around - as I did about 3 decades ago.
BTW, I’m pretty sure that there’s a social/community element to this as well. If you’re paddling with a group that wears PFDs its only courteous to do the same, never mind risk assessment. However unlikely it may be, if there is a problem with anyone in the group you want to be able to confidently and safely assist that person. If we need help ourselves, its really decent of us to “assist in our own rescue” by at least wearing a PFD.
There’s a kid they’ve been looking for for weeks now, and are still looking as far as I know - fell off a fishing boat, no PFD. Another they found, a shore fisherman who slipped into a fast channel who they found quickly but only because there were witnesses - no PFD either. And that’s just in my area recently. Happens everywhere. PFDs are a good idea for anyone on, or even around, deep water.
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Pfd use has always been cultural. Some paddling cultures embrace it more readily than others. I come from a ww culture. We wear our pfds. I think most ocean or great lake paddlers wear a pfd. My understanding (from past threads) is that pfd use is not as strong with wave skis.
Fishermen, wilderness trippers, sups, rec boaters, and racers tend to be less adamant. With surfers or swimmers pfd use is rare. That’s the historical perspective.
Again, I ask “What is the best practice or habit that we want to adopt for paddle sports?” What expectations do we want to set for the general public?
Just a week or so ago, I watched some folks in a float toy go rafting. They were running laps on
Fayette Station Rapid (class IV) without pfds on. Again, I’ll share my thoughts. “If you’re that stupid then have at it.” I said nothing. It’s pretty obvious when tons of people are going by with all of them wearing pfds and helmets, what should be done. In fact, the folks with the toy raft had pfds and took them off and left them on shore. Nobody needs my permission to not wear a pfd. I guess it turned out okay. No ambulances showed up. The NPS didn’t shut the road down.
e Personally, if I were the organizer of a race, I would be adamant. I wouldn’t want the liability of saying “it’s a personal choice” “a pfd is not required”.
I think the real “disrespect” is not from paddlesport enthusiasts who want to promote water safety and encourage pfd use. Rather it is those who don’t respect the water and the dangers it inherently poses. The rest of the story is always important…but mostly it’s just hard to fix stupid.
People don’t know what they don’t know. If they ever pull my body out of the river, it will have a pfd on. T daniel
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Clearly I am an “Always PFD’er”, and proud of it. Like owning a rec kayak, there is nothing wrong with being an “Always PFDer”.
So how did I end up this way? I’ve been thinking about that, and it probably goes back to my first trip with my local club in 2004. I had my PFD on, but not zipped or buckled. I was politely but firmed asked to do both, and have ever since.
To imply that “Always PFDers” use PFD’s as a crutch rather than thinking about risk management is wrong – at least in my case. I have thought a lot about risk management, and I struggle to come up with a scenario (other than underwater entrapment in a strainer) where you are safer not wearing a PFD.
http://eckilson.blogspot.com/search/label/Risk%20Management
I’m not really worried about the folks on this board. Hopefully we will all make the right decision when it counts. I do worry a little more about folks like this:
No, I didn’t tell them as they paddled by that they should put their PFD’s on.
Anyway, like tdaniel, “If they ever pull my body out of the river, it will have a pfd on.”
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We were out yesterday heading into the sun. My partner got a mile out and we turned smack dab into the sun - he had forgotten his sun glasses, but didn’t want to go back. He spent five hours in the sun. My regiment is assembled like a knight putting on armor. Forget one step and I’ll miss something. I left paddles up to a partner. It cost us an hour. I got a mile before I realized I didn’t have a paddle. On another occasion, I forgot water. Seriously, I’ve never forgotten anything on a trip since the water, because I assemble my kit my visualizing deck, cockpit, person and PFD with attached assesories. So that’s what I do.
@eckilson You sound very sincere in your thoughts on the issue of PDF wearing and I agree with you on the importance for your own risk management as well as your advice to others to follow your example. Your blog entry on risk management was a good read and something you are providing to the public to help them understand better.
I live on a river that very closely reflects the picture you posted of the clueless paddlers with PFDs stuck under deck lines or being used as seat backs. Most of them are clueless of other river hazards such as strainers and there is the illusion the water is still and not flowing thru a fallen tree and instead of staying in current flowing around the strainer they feel they can paddle closely around it and then find they don’t have the stroke to paddle out of it when they realize they are being sucked in. In some ways a large lazy river can lull people into a false security.
Like you I don’t normally tell people it would be a good idea to pull that PFD off the seat back and put it on properly and snap it. I don’t do it even though I sometimes want to because I view it as a personal choice. Each adult individual has to make that choice for themselves.
I’m rethinking my above position to some degree as I would hate to think someone totally clueless about PFDs or any other risk assessment measures getting hurt when some little bit of advice could make a difference. The other day I was talking to a couple and told them of a strainer coming up around the corner. I mentioned it is pretty easy to get sucked in it if you don’t try and stay to the far side of the river as it is right on a bend. They had no clue up to that point and after we passed it they said they could feel the pull of the faster current and thanked me for the advice. So I told them those life vests work a lot better when they are around you and then said but it is a personal choice you are free to make. They said they would think about it.
I keep thinking some signs at the entry ramps advising PFDs would be something positive also. Something as simple as (PFDs save lives, but only if you wear them!)
As much feel good stuff as I see I’m surprised there is little messaging like that.
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Yeah, so even if you aren’t instructing, if you are around others you are probably an influencer. I boat in quite a few different environments. When I’m on a river that is class I or II, I’m just as likely to encounter a rescue situation as a more difficult run, class III, IV. The difference is the users, their experience level, and training.
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