Hi, my name is Dave and

Yep in the 1950 my dad had a big boat of a car with no seatbelts and we all piled in. I remember climbing up on the back deck and stretching out looking up at the clouds as we traveled over the then new I90 we called the super highway. Of course mom sat in the front seat with the baby on her lap so it would be safe.

Dad smoked cigarettes that were safe because the smoke went thru an asbestos filter.

We could bring our shotgun to school if we were on shooting team after school so you just put it with your shells in your locker.

What a time we had.

So the question is in another 50 years will we be allowed to paddle? I doubt it but we will have VR headsets to simulate what paddling in the year 2021 was like. It will be deemed to dangerous to actually do.

It would be interesting to see a statistical breakdown of an annual number of paddling deaths. How many had no pfd on, how many were boating alone, how many were not dressed for immersion, and how many involved intoxication?

If you want to go high risk then go out by yourself, without a pfd, without any thermal protection for cold water, and get drunk while paddling.

I would say my paddling culture is ww. We wear our pfds and boat with others. There are a few deviants out there but they are few and far between. WW, has its share of hazards,
which is partially identified by the river classification system.

The aca in their latest participation trend report (2021) stated:

“There were fewer highly active participants
and more that went out less often. Prior
to 2020, the average number of outings per
participant declined every year for the last
decade, and during 2020 it rose just 1 percent.
Casual participants, those participating less
than once a month, grew to 33 percent of all
participants from 28 percent in 2010.
Core participants, those participating more
than once a week, fell from 40 percent of all
participants in 2010 to just 33 percent in 2020.”

In other words, you are now more likely to encounter “casual paddlers”. I think the need for paddling education is increasing rather than decreasing. I 'd like to see more done on the education end and then less legislative action would be deemed desirable. My fear is that too many people equate learning how to swim with a safe paddling experience.

While certainly swimming is fundamental there are many other strategies we can also use to mitigate negative outcomes. Here is my own ranking by importance: 1 pfd use, 2 ability to swim, 3 dressing for immersion, 4 avoiding alcohol and drugs, 5 boat with other competent paddlers, 6 practice self rescue (rolls, swimming). I don’t have any idea if statistical data supports my rankings. Wearing a pfd and having swimming ability is just common sense to me. Some of the other strategies require a bit more awareness.

I posted the USCG numbers for 2020 above. I’d like to see the detail you ask for, but it only has it by PFD wear.

In whitewater, particularly cold water, I would do all the things you mention. Interestingly enough, I inferred from the article I read (posted above) that when someone drowns wearing a PFD it is a paddler that encounters hazards associated most often with whitewater and/or remote waters.

There won’t have to be a ban on paddling, restrictions on vehicles and their usage will make it impossible to get a boat to water.

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Many paid the consequences for their actions years ago.

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More people driving than paddling.

Another reason it is a poor equivalency. Also, another reason to object to the law, why use the resources to enact and enforce such a law aimed at a small population? Swimmers represent a greater population in total and in drownings, why not a law requiring swimmers to wear a PFD?

Actually at our public beach on Lake Erie you are banned from using any flotation.

Because they can usually touch bottom and are close to shore. Lifeguards are present also most of the time.

Bud16415, you made a good point about changing standards. I was involved as an adult leader “cook”, t-shirt, large spatula that doubled as a flyswater. The handbook taught universal precautions, but it wasn’t until a family advised us that a new scout has Hepatitis B (not required to do so). A new scout master asked for a one month hiatus before we approved the scout for trips so we could correct deficiencies in our first aid practices. It came to lawyers and hard feelings, even though the family’s lawyer commended our effort to correct shortcomings in the manual and to practice modern precautions. We made great progress thst kept everyone safe. The old scoutmaster resigned, because he would do anything to help a kid, but thenpointvwas this particular kid would be viewed as a pariah until we were confident and prepared. Instead of seeing how we had the family’s safety in mind, the new scout joined another troop, and they withdrew their two sons from our troop. The three transfered to a troop that we know did not practice recommended precautions. When Gregg Lemond won the Tour de France, helmets were not seen. Nice catch. I’m responsible for me, not for what others decide.

Dave, I feel the same about paddles. And freely admit that years ago I used a homemade ash canoe paddle that doubled as a pizza paddle, and don’t care what anybody tells me about the shortcomings. I did learn a lot about hull speed and recall how the boat would surge, then fall off rapidly in the glide. Waste of energy but I had a vigorous metabolism and powerful upper strength then. I think of that when I see a person on a paddleboard, but am amazed when I clock their progress or see how far they managed to paddle.

The Lake Erie rules bring to mind an inconvenient but brilliant liability procedure that another member brought up a few days ago. Boy Scout swim procedures mandate swimmers can only be admitted to pool areas in pairs, with a name tag placed on a board. Every fifteen minutes, the lifeguard blows the whistle and each pair joins hands for a count. If a scout fails to retrieve a tag, a runner goes to the owner’s camp. If the scout isn’t accounted for, an emergency whistle blows for all to return to respective camps and a headcount goes to the HQ. Cumbersome, but a great comfort for parents sending young kids away from home for first time.

I hold strict standards for my family. Consequently, when they hear a kayaker in distress over police blotter apps that some monitor, they know my standards. My son in law recently offered to buy me a smart watch that connect through my cell phone if it’s within 30 ft. I figured out that my daughter probably worries about me because she knows what conditions I go out in. I’ll take it, but should mention there isnt cell coverage in all parts of the bay. I never go out without a VHF. Not a law for unpowered craft. Just my rule.

And yet they still drown in greater numbers, not to mention based on the arguments for “always wear a PFD” depth of water is irrelevant because of “the unexpected”.

Yep, not unusual, many pools and beaches do. One of the reasons I’ve heard cited is that they provide a false sense of security. It makes me wonder if people do things with paddle craft they shouldn’t because they have a PFD.

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I was recently reminded that the class of Life Vest we use is actually not designed for prolonged immersion or for use in heavy sea, and are not necessarily designed to keep your head out of water if unconscious.

I Just bought a vest and became aggrevated with certain features during a 20 mile test run. It’s going to the box of unloved toys. I chuckle because my guest paddlers can use some reasonably nice gear. The replacement vest will have floatation rated in the higher range. I hate wearing a vest, but do like the sense of security from the additional level of flotation.

Yes irrelevant if you can’t stand up. :joy:

Most have 16 lb flotation few 18. Paddling vest are not made to float you face up. Never read anything about prolonged immersion.

Standards always change just look at OSHA construction regulations. Industry leaders in construction meet with OSHA yearly and look at accident / injury stats and make changes.

It seems that some simply can’t imagine paddling without a PFD. This is not meant to change your own habits regarding PFD wear, but perhaps gain some recognition that there is a time and place that “always wear a PFD” doesn’t apply.

https://youtu.be/CwIl4IJss4s

Its kind of interesting - I completely agree that safety is a prime consideration in paddling. I now wear a PFD (though I’ll admit for nearly 20 years I wore one only if I thought I might get into a “dicy” situation - and in all that time never had to swim. No false sense of security, I guess). I carry a throw rope and practice with it from time to time, wouldn’t think of getting in a canoe if I was afraid of water or swimming… In short, like youse guys, I’m a modern paddler.

AND YET

We are the inheritors of a long and proud tradition. North American was explored and for hundreds of years, longer than the US has been a country, routinely traveled by canoe. And for a hundred times that long by native Americans in frail birchbarks… (Or in kayaks on icy oceanic waters) In the cold, without PFDs, drinking their allotted portions of rum for lunch, not dressed for immersion, and not uncommonly alone. The voyageurs were encouraged and hired not to be swimmers because it was felt if they didn’t fear the water enough (had a true sense of security), they would run the risk of paddling in rapids or large waves, thereby endangering their cargo. Crosses were erected at portages, the trail often beginning feet away from the lips of unrunnable rapids, to those who died from missed landings - though by so doing they probably avoided a slower more painful death by strangulated hernias.

But they were free of regulation. Free to choose their own risks and live or die by their choices, to walk the line without a net. No L. Erie swimming rules. And that freedom echos and is still felt by paddlers. And it should be.

As with mountaineers, risk assessment, skill building and accurate self-evaluation, and good judgement is a big part of the game. Frankly, I’m not sure that can be taught without taking some risk. “Book learning”, instruction, is only a start. But, as is suggested here, it still should be encouraged.

To fall back on the (weak) driving analogy - we do require driver’s ed, a driver’s test, a license to drive a car. All that doesn’t make a person a good or a safe driver. But its a start. Would we really feel good if it weren’t?

So for safety’s sake should we do the same for paddling? That sounds a little like where this is heading. Is that where we really want to go? Is it unsafe and a disgrace to our sport to paddle without a merit badge? Need the qualified instructor’s permission to paddle? How about to go outside? I hate to think so… Is the hair on the back of your neck standing up also? What say you qualified instructors?

No, like the voyageurs of old we need to accept that there is risk that we, or anyone else who chooses to paddle, needs to accept and learn to handle. That acceptance and knowledge is ultimately one of the long term rewards of paddling. It forever changes our approach to life in general and we’re better people for it. There’s a responsibility to accept risk from an informed position that goes with the privilege to venture to all the wondrous places paddling takes us. We need to accept that there will always be some who “miss the landing.” After doing what we can to warn those who are skirting the edge, after making darned good and sure we aren’t doing so ourselves, we takes our own chances and pays our own dues.
And try not to judge others harshly for doing what paddlers have done for centuries. With luck they’ll come around.

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My state (Pennsylvania) fish and game commission publishes an annual report of boating deaths in the state. The highest proportion is usually older men alone in canoes or kayaks who are found out of their boats without PFD’s and drowned, frequently in tranquil waters they could have stood up in, indicating that there may have been incidents like a heart attack, fainting from heat or just becoming disoriented and exhausted while struggling after a capsize (alcohol is sometimes involved). Where a fatality included a PFD being on the victim it is almost always being hit by another boat or obstacle while waterskiing or tubing, for example, or situations in cold water where the victim was not properly dressed.

And as been mentioned, at least your body can be recovered more easily in most cases if you have flotation. The body of one of the two young women who swept over a local low head dam in her rec boat a couple of years ago was not recovered for days. Her PFD was stashed under the boat deck. Could not have saved her from being washed into the maelstrom and battered to death but at least her family would not have had that agonizing delay when her swollen corpse floated ashore miles from the accident.