My xtreme is 13 oz. Not sure what size the 10oz is for, but I think that rating is a little generous
Oh ya, I was thinking of the Medium (10oz). I think the Xtreme is rated at 12 but you have a slightly longer than usualy shaft so 13 makes sense.
Either way, you’ll like it. The Xtreme should have a little extra carbon in it so its not fragile, but I still would not push off of anything and take car in shallow water. Good to keep a woody with you if you know you’ll be traveling through a marsh, mud flats, river backwaters, or anywhere else likely to have obstructions.
I figured giving up a couple ounces for the extra durability was worth it.
I have a lighter wood paddle that I’ll keep with me, but the shaft is very oddly shaped, so I may replace it with a little nicer beater. We’ll see
The same rules goes for a good well made wood paddle. Carbon or wood, the blade never intentionally touches ground or rocks, either on land or underwater. The first thing I tell my students when they are standing, listening to me while holding their paddle, is they had better not lean lean on the paddle with the tip in the dirt. Rest it on your foot, or you will strongly hear from me.
Most paddlers will carry a spare carbon paddle during important or long races. I have only broken one paddle, during a race over a shallow rocky bottom. The blade got stuck into a narrow gap between two heavy rocks and I snapped it mid blade. I immediately grabbed my spare. The broken blade was a GRB paddle and Gene replaced it at no charge to me.
I’m reading this post with great interest. I’ve never used a carbon paddle, but I have some thoughts about why wooden paddles work for my partner and I, though I may be wrong. So, I’m looking to be told that I’m wrong–and why please.
We paddle a tandem 17.5’ Kevlar Clipper Tripper (about 60 lbs.) canoe, mostly in ocean conditions–think big lake. I (stern) paddle with a smallish bladed straight wooden beavertail. My bow uses a straight wooden otter tail.
Our typical day (loaded) is up to 30 km and 20 km is a pretty short day. Our longest day unloaded is 49 km. Our pace averages out to about 5km/h, though we’ve topped out at almost 10 km/h for a few minutes.
We paddle at about 45 strokes per minute and we match every stroke because I use a very abbreviated J (at my hips). This works well for us. While we do switch every few minutes, we do not want to sit and switch every few strokes. The J works fine. Also, from what I’ve read here, those carbon paddles demand a higher cadence and I don’t think we (meaning she) would be happy at a faster cadence.
I find our paddles are very easy on the body. This could be because our long-bladed paddles allow us to engage (catch) the blade in the water a little slower than shorter wider blades, such as I’ve seen on those carbon bent shafts. This is because it takes a moment to fully bury these long blades at the catch, even if you really work on really burying it before starting the pull. So, while the surface area of the two types of paddles is similar, my thinking is that the longer-bladed paddle feel lighter through the water. On the other hand, the carbon paddle is lighter out of the water.
I would like to try some carbon paddles but at $300-$500 a pop, they are an expensive proposition.
I’d be interested in reactions and thoughts to my assumptions here. Thx.
What you are doing may work really well for you now and no one is going to contradict that.
Ultimately, a lighter paddle should reduce your effort required. By enough to justify $600+ for the pair? Only you can decide that. Since you aren’t racing, you don’t have a trophy hinging on this.
I can’t say I have seen someone regret going for a lighter tool, whether that be a hammer, paddle or anything in between. Generally the most common sentiment is a wish that they did it sooner.
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Ok, I got a confession. I’ve only paddled with a bent shaft one time. My impression was that it was more efficient and provided a shorter/quicker power stroke for straight ahead paddling. My thought was that it would be beneficial for a bow paddler who was supplying power. The paddle I used was really nice, glued wood strips with glass finish, not the kind of paddle you would push off rocks with. So it didn’t pass the chuck test. I wouldn’t want to chuck it from the boat onto the shore. No desire to use one at all in ww.
jeffski,
You are not doing anything wrong at all. I love my wood paddles, but as a racer, they just don’t work well enough in that venue. You appear to be a fairly long distance paddler and put a lot of effort into your sport. One advantage of a wood paddle is that when it is in the water, it becomes lighter due to buoyancy. But that goes away out of the water. 45 SPM is a comfortable pace, and it sounds as if your J is working to keep you going as straight as you need to. Both you and your bow partner likely have a very proper “stacked hands” grip on your paddles, with a near to hip straight line stroke. When racing, my stroke rate is a fair amount higher than that, but there is no “demand” for a higher cadence just because you are using a carbon paddle. it will perform just as well and be just as lightweight no matter what your cadence is. At the end of the day you can add up all those accumulated additional pounds of lift during the stroke recovery and you will be amazed at the extra tonnage work you have done with heavier paddles.
Yes, carbon bents can be expensive. Many racers I know are drawn to buy expensive ZRE paddles. However there is a paddle maker near me who has a much better price, (most around $200 US) for a paddle every bit as light and well performing as those more expensive ones. I have several of their paddles ranging from 49-52 inches, plus spares, and paid far less than ZRE prices. I and my voyageur and C4 team have used those paddles on more than 30 Adirondack 90 mile races, six Yukon River races, including twice on the 1000 mile Yukon race. We always carry a spare or two, but have never had to use a spare paddle.
As I mentioned in a previous post, when recreational paddling (not racing or training) I do prefer my custom straight wood paddles because a straight paddle has more ability to perform advanced strokes when in interesting waterways. But if I am paddling dozens of miles per day without much maneuvering required, then a carbon bent will get me there more efficiently, quickly, and with muscles better rested.
https://www.grbnewmandesigns.com/paddles-and-accessories
GRB Paddles
We make these to order, right here in our shop. We build a high quality, carbon fiber paddle at a very competitive price. Our paddles are molded with a true 12 degree angle that provides a great catch with a solid feel in the water. Let us know and we can customize your paddle with the length and blade width to fit your needs. While there can be a trade-off between weight and durability, we can adjust the weight to fit your type of paddling. Also available are color logos to further personalize your paddle.
Prices start at $195.00
When you talk to Gene Newman at GRB, tell him that “Yukon Paul” recommended him. He will know.
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For rivers I like straight shaft paddles. I have made several laminated ones over the years out of strong woods like mahogany, walnut and white ash. They are not meant to be the lightest, but are plenty strong to stand up to rocks and tough use. I have found them in eddys down stream several times after capsizes. Now I am emotionally attached to them.
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@jefffski - A few comments. I paddled for many years exclusively with straight shaft carbon paddles while kneeling in my solos. My most recent purchase was a six degree GRB carbon which I love for kneeling (I’ve been told that you want a shallower angle for kneeling and that sure feels true to me). I use a normal 12 degree bent only in my sitting solo.
For sure it’s not true that all carbon paddles require a higher cadence. A straight shaft carbon can be used easily at your current cadence. I’m usually cruising around 45-52 strokes per minute and I don’t like or want a higher cadence. The shorter length bent shafts would require a higher cadence to maintain same pace since each stroke is less powerful but you do gain something from the bent blade so you’d still be happy at your current cadence. But your cadence might rise a little naturally with something like a straight (or bent) ZRE because the overall length would be shorter than what you use plus the paddle would be lighter so it’s super handy and swings easily…it’s just a naturally fast recovery.
I’d also say that carbon paddles are not necessarily hard on the body. A ZRE has flex. The Bending Branches carbon shaft paddles have quite a bit of flex too although some of it is in the wood blade. Plus you don’t have to apply max power at the catch…that’s under your control. I’ve got a bunch of different brand carbon paddles and none hurt me.
I use my ZRE’s to push off and they can take tons of abuse on rocks. The only way I’ve seriously injured one is by slamming the blade in a car door.
If you want a straight carbon you can order a ZRE with a custom 0 degree angle. I’d recommend their Medium lay-up and 8 1/4 inch blade width. Or if you really want a fully symmetric paddle and grip I recommend the new Werner carbon canoe paddle. My friend has one and loves it. Both would be a bit over $300 and both can be ordered on the long side with the handle unglued so you can trim with a hacksaw and fine tune until the length is perfect. If you want a bent shaft I agree that the GRB paddles are a screaming bargain at $195 with quality equal to ZRE.
Just my two cents
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For tandem lake paddling such as during canoe camping trips up in the northwoods area of northern MN and southern ON my wife and I used bent shaft paddles nearly 100% of the time although I always carried a straight shaft paddle as a spare.
For the normal forward propulsion power stroke the bent shaft is more efficient bow and stern. My finding it that a bow draw or cross draw can be executed fairly easily even with a bent shaft with as much as 15 degrees of angle. And a correction stroke added onto the end of a stern forward stroke, such as a traditional J stroke or knifing J stroke can also be done easily with a bent.
Where the bent becomes awkward is when a more powerful stern steering stroke is required. Executing a stern pry in the traditional fashion, where the back face of the blade is loaded, or a stern draw in which the power face is loaded when done with a bent shaft puts the grip hand at an awkward position way outboard of the gunwale. In those circumstances where I was paddling stern with a bent shaft and a strong steering stroke became unexpectedly needed, I would usually just flip the paddle over and load the power face for the pry and the back face for the draw since it was quicker than grabbing a straight shaft paddle.
Both 99+% of the time, for that type of paddling a bow forward stroke and a stern forward/correction combo with either a J or a Canadian stroke does just fine.
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A word of caution: bent paddles are addicting. I use a ten degree 52 inch paddle for almost everything, from OC-6 to racing and with a little woodstrip I use the most.
I will admit that I designed and built the paddle that I use, it was originally for some friends that needed club paddles for a budding OC-6 team.
The primary reason for a bent paddle was to keep all of the stress of paddling in front of you. That removed a lot of pulled back muscles.
The standard ZRE bend is 9 degrees. That (or a ten degree) allows for a higher cadence without slapping the water, something that can happen with a higher angle. The problems with the ZRE paddles, for me, are the squashed ball handle and that they are so light that they can be hard to use in the wind.
If I had to buy a paddle, it would probably be a GRB,
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I did consider GRB as well. My first call was to ZRE and Bob was super helpful, so I went that way. For the less than $80 difference, I won’t lose any sleep.
When I want to grab a straight paddle, I will take another look at GRB though
@CraigF - just FYI standard ZRE angle is 12 but I bet a 9 or 10 might feel better. I agree that they can sometimes feel almost too light and that’s one reason I like their Medium lay-up over their light or ultralight.
@mike93lx - Zavs are great paddles! Good choice.
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I’m a little worried about this thing in the wind. Feels like I won’t be able to set it on my gunwales on a windy day
They do tend to catch air. The gunwales are close together at my usual bow seat so there is not much support to hold the paddle in place. I always place mine with the blade at my feet when I rest it inside the canoe.
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Yes, be careful when switching sides on a very windy day. One time I lost a paddle during a race as it was ripedo ut of my hands by the wind (and a bad handoff on my part). Luckily the virtuous random people paddling the lake picked it up and called me after the race to pick it up.
They can get blown away easily. I highly recommend these be attached to every thwart to keep your paddle in place
https://www.zre.com/shop/canoe-paddle-clip-snapon-diameter-free-shipping-p-55.html
Great suggestion. Even if just for portage, that would be super useful
Narrow blades work best in deep water as there is room there for them. Won’t work in the Everglades where they instantly become short poles stuck in the bottom.
Shorter wider blades transmit turning forces much more efficiently and on a long trip require a lot of attention to technique . That is hard hour after hour. Even wide blade aficionados narrow the blade a bit for long days.
The carbon paddle invites but does not demand a higher cadence. I have lolly gagged with lazy J on Lake Superior many times with a bent shaft carbon fiber paddle if it is calm.
No matter what the blade the synchrony of a tandem pair makes doing miles more efficiently. That is one of the first lessons in canoeing 101. You are a team and the bow paddler sets the cadence. The stern may ask for slower or faster but never demand.
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At virtually every canoeing event I have been at in and near the Adirondacks, there is a vendor selling handy accessories. Those clips are a hot item. Virtually every canoe has a couple of those paddle clips attached. They would be a little awkward to clip a paddle into if you are only stopping for a few strokes to grab a candy bar from your lunch bag, but spare paddles are commonly held securely in place with one or two until and if needed.