Wow how in the world did my posting every make it to the message board of the week wow…lol
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I think there’s a bit more to it than these recommendations. Water temp is primary but air temp matters also. In our area (eg. Lake Superior) water temps can be in the 50s well into summer while air temps can be in the 70s and even 80s. For me at least, a drysuit can be brutally hot in those temps and it’s hard to cool off unless you roll the kayak. A wetsuit works better for me in those conditions. I can always dump some cool Lake Superior water onto my wetsuit but it has little effect in my drysuit. I have been in 50s water in a wetsuit for 30+ minutes and in mid-30s water briefly in solo re-entry practice situations without problems. I’m not suggesting that everyone would respond the same. As other have said, having a plan for recovery, help nearby, distance from shore, etc. are all factors to consider.
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Excellent point. I was in Grand Marais for a week last July. Air temps were in the high 80s and it was sunny. Wearing a drysuit in those conditions was exhausting. On one especially hot morning there was no wet work planned so we were allowed to ditch the drysuits. I skipped the afternoon session because of the 85F air temp and drysuit requirement.
I had not packed my wetsuit but if I return this summer, I won’t make that same mistake.
Completely agree with you and I respond best to a drysuit. 80+ degrees seldom catches us by surprise so what we choose to wear under the suit matters. I cool off by dipping my hat in the water. I lose one maybe two strokes and cool off a lot.
For me, in all honesty, wet suits just feel awful. In the water, out of the water, whenever I interact with them BUT they really work well for a ton of informed paddlers. Kudos to you. I wish I was one of you but I am not.
The wetsuit/drysuit debate will never be resolved, sort of like the debate of stretch VS trim and fabric VS latex socks among drysuit users. We are all paddlers here and I am really proud of us for how well we have gotten along while offering our best advice. Personally, I think this has gone quite well. Much better than some previous attempts. Don’t you think?
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I agree completely.
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We were all newbies once.
Happy to help!
And remember…if you’re wondering about something, you’re probably not the only one. So your posing the question potentially informs many people!
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I also agree that in 40-50 degree water, a 3/2mm or 4/3mm fullsuit is not adequate. That’s drysuit territory, unless you can paddle in thicker neoprene. I’ve worn a 5mm hooded fullsuit in water that was in the low 50s and deliberately jumped into the water. It was good enough for that in PNW summer air temps in the high 60s, but for below 50 degrees water temp a drysuit is much better.
Aside from in-water considerations, there is also the not insignificant matter of changing clothes after the paddle. Wet, thick neoprene is very tough to peel off. It tends to suck down to your damp skin if it fits snugly enough. Removing a drysuit (zipper, gaskets, and all) is easier and quicker—an important factor when your hands are clammy and the air temp is cool or cold.
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Rookie, when I went to ME for coaching, I brought drysuit plus insulation, AND a 2mm shorty wetsuit. A humid heat spell had socked the area, and on the hottest day, even the shorty was hot! I rolled several times (air temp 90-something, water temp up to 66 deg from 57 only one week earlier). Even after rolling, I was still hot in just that little bit of neoprene.
In such conditions, I think a bathing suit (or birthday suit) would be the most comfortable, and safe enough, too.
Most days I did wear the drysuit because we intended to either do a lot of “wet work” or there was a high chance of capsizing.
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nailed him
After I bit the bullet and bought a dry suit I almost never wear a wet suit anymore, I find it more versatile, suitable for very cold to cool water, and easier to get on and off. although I will wear a Hydoskin top and bottom in water from about 60 - 70°F.
However if you are wearing a wet suit, one trick is to wear a Lycra full body suit underneath. SCUBA divers often wear these in tropical waters because it will protect you from stinging jellyfish and corals while being minimally restrictive. It makes getting a wet suit on and off dramatically easier while not compromising how the wet suit works.
Keep in mind a dry suit by itself has all on the insulating properties of a shower curtain.
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There are lots of options. First is the boat. A sit in with a spray skirt will keep you pretty warm on chilly days vs an open canoe or SOT kayak. If you’re paddling in really cold weather, you’ll probably find a dry suit to be a much more comfortable option than a wet suit. Do note that I said really cold… dry suits can be miserably hot if it’s not [really cold… like below 30 degrees]. Waterproof paddle pants and a waterproof paddle jacket work well for most at temperatures above 30, and they also cut the wind. Lightweight and easy to store when it warms up, those are my preference. That said, they will not keep you dry if you fall in like a dry suit will, so hypothermia is more of a concern. My paddle pants have velcro/neoprene seals around the ankles and waist and I can go in without any water seeping in. The jacket on the other hand does not keep out water if you bail, but does have seals around the neck and wrists to keep out the occasional paddle drip. Hope this helps and happy paddling!
Back in the 80s I bought a 1/4" two-piece for messing around in icy rapids during spring flood. We called it playing dodgemfloes. The suit was way too hot and after 10 minutes I would dump in just to cool off. The word “shock” does not do justice to how it feels when that water hits you, but within a couple of minutes the water in the suit was getting too warm. Clearly 1/4" was overkill, and on top of that there was a rubber band effect that made everything harder when wearing the suit.
Recently I did something extremely stupid on a solo river paddle involving a downed tree, dumping for the first time in 35 years. I had already paddled 15 miles with 5 to go to get back to my house. The chunks of ice in the river were not melting very fast, but air temp was a balmy 45. I was wearing a PFD over a polypro knit top and (ouch) jeans. This was a long workout and I was sweating. One second I was stuck under a tree trunk, next second I was standing in shockingly cold waist deep water next to my overturned kayak, soaked from head to foot. I got the water out and was back in the boat in less than a minute, by which time I was shivering intensely. I pulled on my hoodie and wool hat from the day hatch and lost a glove doing it. Took off the PFD, put on the hoodie, then the PFD, then paddled as hard as I possibly could toward home. Nearest house on the way was 1/4 mile.
At this point I was for some reason thinking “how strange it is that I’m acting this way”, sort of an out of body (more like out of mind) experience. I made stupid mistakes; tree that I could normally dodge in my sleep somehow didn’t dodge so smoothly. The shivering stopped in about five minutes, at which point I knew I would be OK. By the time I got back home my shirt was dry, but my legs and feet were cold and wet and I was exhausted.
Dunno what conclusions can be drawn beyond how stupid I was, but once you get out an immersion situation if you can keep the wind off and wear poly, you can get warm again just from burning calories. I’m not about to run out and buy a wet suit or dry suit but I will wear proper clothing from now on, and as always keeping a dry top and hat in the day hatch compartment is key.
Why? Is this dude dressing like that?
The difference between life and death.
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A dry suit IS “proper clothing” for those conditions. Too bad you didn’t learn more from your frigid lesson. Next time, you may not be so lucky…and don’t kid yourself, you were very lucky. Other paddlers have made lesser mistakes and not lived to tell about it.
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In the West the best flows are during snowmelt. Rivers have desirable flows from March to June and water tends to be cold. Sometimes it is in the low 40s. Dressing for immersion is important. By May the weather can be hot, but the water is still cold. A shorty wet suit can be just the thing. Sometimes paddle jackets are good. A dry suit is the best. I do not know of any other suitable clothing that can keep people safe.
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Agreed.
3 mm rubber is for summer. There’s a huge diff 40 deg -50 deg.
Dry suit essential below 50 in Boston. I Love my new 5 mm long-sleeve shortie for Spring & fall.
Wanna live? Subtract 20 from whatever anyone says the water temp is
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Correct fitting (tight) full wetsuits are fine for kayaking in the coldest sea water temps. You need to match the thickness of the wetsuit to the water temps. For most people a 4/3 suit will work for short term immersion in 45 -50 degree water, many folks find this adequate for surfing. It all depends on your body fat and metabolism and experience. Responses that a wetsuit won’t work usually come from people who tried using a poor fitting, cheap, farmer john, where water flushes through the suit. A good 4/3 suit can be found now for around $200. Look for Oneil, Excel suits on end of winter season sales. (Getting tough to find wetsuits with everybody out of school and work surfing during Covid times.) My experience of wearing a drysuit in life or death coldwater swims didn’t convince me that they are worth the expense and the bulky drag issues trying to swim in rough water.
First off - I wouldn’t recommend this.
But in answer to the question - wet suits can provide protection in cold water. But, make no mistake about it, cold water is dangerous. We’ve had at least two people from this board who have died from it. You damned well better know what you’re doing before you venture into it. It takes training and conditioning and a near complete lack of sanity.
Now ask yourself - how crazy are you, really? How important is it to you to paddle in the cold? Got something really important to do out there? No BS allowed - you’re betting your life every time.
Did I mention I wouldn’t recommend it? But wet suits can provide protection.
But I wouldn’t recommend it. I said that didn’t I?
PS: I used to paddle (canoe on rivers) in a wet suit also and another point to consider - If you’re not burning energy, working pretty hard, wet suits get cold and clammy pretty fast. Comfort depends on keeping paddling at a fairly good pace. These guys don’t seem particularly interested in comfort. Also, these guys are never as far from shore or a heated vehicle as a kayaker is liable to be almost continuously. If I had to paddle in those conditions, I’d be trying to get out of the surf zone as fast as I could, go where I was going, stay out there until I was ready to land - which means a much longer swim if things really went bad (assuming no successful roll) and probably farther from a building or warm vehicle once on shore. So paddling might in some ways be even riskier than what these guys are doing, hard as that may be to believe. A bombproof roll, of course, is an absolutely necessary skill for a kayaker venturing out in big cold water and air. A dry suit seems the better choice for a paddler where the purpose is not strictly to swim.
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