Check out this vid and you’ll know
http://vimeo.com/1297603
Never turned over?
Not sure that’s something to hang your hat on… but leaving the longer discussion aside, I have to wonder if you guys could handel a rescue if she (or yourself) did.
??
what doe’s the american red cross know about kayaking??, There’s plenty of Bcu instr In America, Go to the Bcu website and look, Why do all americans hate the BCU,I do think because its a real test System not a ACA day paddle
parroting…
I’ll just say again that lessons from a good coach are worthwhile at any stage of development. The earlier the better. Sure, some can learn on their own, but a few timely pointers save much trial and error. Perfect practice makes perfect, as though any of us attain perfection… Being shown how to do it right gives you a foundation to practice. I also started out learning by doing, and once I got into a jam decided lessons might not hurt…
Wow Self Rescue in 5’ breaking waves!!!
I have never been in 5’ breaking waves!!! To someone like me who has never had formal training 5’ breaking waves seem like a place not to be!!! No one ever taught me to go into 5’ breaking waves. Why would anyone go into 5’ breaking waves??? How many people go into 5’ breaking waves??? My wife would call me suicidal if I deliberately went into 5’ breaking waves. Now I have body surfed in 5’ Braking waves and once I pitchpoled a sailboat in 5’ breaking waves.
A lot depends upon what you intend to do!!! Jumping into class 4 whitewater you had better know something. Heading out into 5’ breaking waves you had better know something. But going paddling around on the local lake in moderate conditions is within almost anyones ability without formal instruction…unless you are mentally challenged. You need to know your limitations!!! There is no debate that instruction can help you learn more things more quickly. But I stand by my claim that the average person can paddle flatwater safely without instruction assuming that they are “outdoor people”" Basically familiar with outdoor life. But if you are a city person with little or no outdoor experience you may need instructions. Having lived all of my life experiencing the outdoors I don’t need anyone to tell me not to go into 5’ breaking waves unless I feel really confident in my ability to handle breaking waves.
Depends how you learn
VIdeos and books are good for giving you the general right idea (assuming they’re GOOD videos and books), but I found it best to get real live instruction. Visual demonstrations were not enough for me; actually doing the stuff under a watchful eye was much more useful. Your body needs to form an instinctive memory of what to do, and you can’t get that just by reading or looking. You have to do it, and do it well, over and over.
Also, having a good instructor teach you means you are less likely to form bad habits, and there is a built-in safety factor. Sometimes it is surprising how quickly another person can see what’s wrong when we only have a vague idea ourselves.
Then there is the psychological factor: if you have not actually been upside down in a kayak with a sprayskirt on, I doubt any books or videos will eliminate that first-time anxiety. You just have to get out and do it to get over that mental hump. And this particular thing–wet exits–is something you want to do the first time with someone as safety backup.
With that attitude, you may learn nothin
– Last Updated: Jul-15-08 1:37 PM EST –
An open mind is the first requirement.
I agree that just getting out there is the first step toward becoming comfortable in a kayak. It may or may be adequate for what you want to do. Your profile states that your biggest adventure was a one-night trip in the Okefenokee Swamp. Others have goals for which a more rigorous learning approach would be better.
Having not capsized is NO measure of proficiency. That's like saying that because you were never in a car wreck you are a good driver. Maybe you took lower risks and were just plain lucky.
As for joining a group, that depends hugely on the group. Some of them are like the blind leading the blind. More is not always better/safer.
sailyak I think you answered your own
(earlier) rhetorical question “What the HEck Can you Learn???”
You can learn techniques to handle your kayak and yourself to paddle comfortable and confidently in 5’ breaking waves. Sure you could learn that on your own, although you have already stated that you wouldn’t try it. Or you could take lessons, learn from a progression of skills, and have someone there to look after you and take care of your if things go wrong. Plus, you get feedback from the instructor.
good technique
does not evolve naturally. You don’t learn how to paddle more efficiently as your arms get tired, you learn how to paddle with different muscles. This may or may not be good technique. Often you get sloppy technique as a result of using sloppy technique. And, good technique doesn’t always come naturally because you may never use the muscles required for good technique in normal day to day life. As a result, the muscles needed for good technique wear out quickly and you switch to other muscles quickly - reinforcing bad technique. I am not saying this is always the case, but it does happen.
I have to agree with pikabike and celia that never turning over is not a good thing, nor is capsizing a bad thing. If you have never capsized in 7 years that is great, but if you do capsize then it is something you have never done, that is not suppose to happen, and puts you in completely new territory for the first time. If it is an accidental capsize then you are experiencing something new and a bit shocking ‘for real’, rather than in a ‘controlled’ environment.
No.
It’s not that safe, certainly not here.
Rewarding, challenging, inspiring.
Two weeks go I was paddling ice bergs, this week whales. Tonight my friends were considering a paddle , winds were at 28 knots.
You have to know this stuff and some lessons can be handy.
Most clubs dole out free advice that is localized and these clubs can be the greatest investment you can make.
If you are paddling in anything but a mill pond don’t be deluded into complacency.
If someone has a real doubt about this, ask them “what secondary drowning is and is it dangerous?”
Past that being able to get back into your own boat may (if nothing else) get you and your boat back out of the water in the same place.
hi
– Last Updated: Jul-15-08 4:58 PM EST –
I've got to agree with sailyaker. I think for an ourdoorsy, adventurous sport as kayaking, it's a little sad to say that you need instruction to go down a simple river of flat lake.
Yes like he said, if you don't know how to swim well than I guess, but if you can't start and do lakes without lessons I would say this isn't the sport for you.
I'm just getting into this sport but I didn't take any lessons I am carefull and I go on lakes and rivers all the time.
I would think there are only a couple circumstances when you may want lessons.
A. for whitewater
B. to learn to roll more quickly
C. for navigation.
D. hazardous oceans
But for what it looks like 90% of people do kayaking, I see no reason to take lessons. Paddling with friends or a local club should be enough.
And worse
You recover from an upset then because you don’t realize the other paddler (or you) are shaken the ordeal repeats. You aspirate some water and cough up a lung hardly able to get your breath. Just a little way from shore you get out of the water secure your boats and get home okay right??? Remember that water??
Pulmonary a edema sets in and someone does not wake up.
Guided training is important. My first years were self taught using books as guidelines. My first Symposium was an eye opener. First course was invaluable. A 16 year old kid taught me to roll in 5 minutes. The second (real course) was not a great learning experience but I did clean up some issues. Other courses were OK but most were little more than accreditation for stuff I already knew.
HOWEVER: The practice with those people made every cent and minute worth gold.
Things never go wrong? Over the years I have had four people locked into a boat upside down with a spray deck: One was me. I have only ever done a half dozen real rescues (When it mattered). Not many but the folks I plucked out of the water were happy I could.
Courses can be life savers. Mix the local skills with the standard BCU, AKA or Paddle Canada courses and you have valuable information
Learning
One does not need a certified instructor to teach them everything, but I don’t want to paddle with anyone who couldn’t help me if I was in trouble.
Not only do you need to learn methods of self-rescue, but if you are interested in paddling with others you need to know how to rescue them. An improper response might cause a tragedy for everyone involved.
as regards motor learning
and any skilled activity (e.g. music, sports, paddling, climbing, etc.) - if you model less than optimum technique, you will practice less than optimum technique, and thus you will learn less than optimum technique, which leads to less than optimum performance.
And that’s where ongoing, intermittent, instruction comes in, and it can make all the difference in achieving positives outcomes.
After that, it’s all about putting in the seat time; there are no shortcuts!
The 5 footers -
>>
—> If the waves are less than 3 feet they are no fun surfing, are they? And I went there to learn to surf them. Once I capsized, I took the oportunity to practice self rescues. I was only 30-40 feet from shore and I could either swim out or self rescue and go back in. To be honest, the shoreline and sea bottom were such that the large rolling waves start to break off-shore, may be 100 yards off shore. Then they are in the “breaking” stage for may be 20-30 yards zone, depending on the wave. Then there is a 30 yard or so calm area towards shore, then the surf pics-up again to a 2-3 foot breaking waves in the last 20-30 yards feet and then break again and crash on-shore. Basically it’s like this: deep ocean with smooth non-breaking waves/large rolling waves pick-up for surfing/large breaking waves break/rolling non-breaking waves again/smaller breaking waves/shore. If I capsized in the large waves, then self-rescued myself in the section b/w the large and small waves. I would not have attempted at all entering the water if I had not observed these two calmer sections were there as buffers for me - I knew I would be upside-down in the surf eventually and that would have been extremely unpleasant even with a helmet if done close to shore -
---> No argument here, but I'd buy that only for warm shallow close to shore flat water in a sit on top kayak or another appropriate vessel that allows easy reentry and does not sink easily. From my own personal experience avoiding lessons, I know that anything else, and the unknows are just too many and can be life-threatening as I've experienced a couple of times the hard way simply because I did not know what to expect.
unless your preferred method
of self rescue was a roll–then a sink would be fine.
To avoid injury
You left that one off your list - aging boomers can do bodacious long term damage to their shoulders and wrists if they paddle with a poor forward stroke. Most people starting out without lessons arm paddle, which will eventually cause damage.
I also see too many people in lakes and quiet rivers who haven’t ever found out if they can get back into their boat after a capsize, and many will eventually find they can’t.
I would agree that lessons aren’t the only way to get a good forward stroke and self-rescue skills, but most people I see who haven’t gone for at least a couple of basic lessons have also never taken the time to practice and learn this stuff on their own either. The habit of learning seems to be binary for most.
Why would anyone go into 5’ breaking…
because if you know what you are doing out there it’s fun.
I can go out thru them usually, but at the moment I need something a bit lower to make it back in. At least if the return trip is to be based on more than sheer luck. But that is the reason for lessons.
If you want to enhance the fun, it often requires learning to handle more challenging stuff. In any sport.
By the way, a single question mark is often enough.
Criticizing what you haven’t tried…
This is not a position for or against lessons per se - but on a quick reread of this thread it seems that some of the most strident voices against lessons haven’t ever tried it. The ones who are saying it was useful have, for the most part.
Whatever you decide for your own course, I’d hesitate to take advice from someone about something they have expressed a clear bias against. If they had tried lessons and found them to be a waste, it’d be different.
No kidding!
I noticed the same thing. How can you know what you’re missing if you haven’t even tried it?
I remember a fellow vanpooler proclaiming she hated New York City. I detected more than a hint of hysterical heresay in her words, so I asked, “Have you ever been there?” Her answer was “Um, no, but…” (I don’t like NYC myself but I had been there several times from the 60s to the 80s).