I am like you in that it has taken me forever to learn a roll.(Alot of it was mental block and preconceived notions) I have paddled mainly flat water(lakes,small rivers, intra coastal waterways etc)for 10+ years. I have also paddled class 1 & small 2's of white water a couple times a year. After years of never capsizing in my kayak, one day it finally happened.
About 3 years ago, I did something stupid that was outside my safe zone & element. Needless to say I spent about an hour flipped in the ocean(should not had been there). I had to be rescued(my tight quality PFD saved me from being fish food)by a freaking jet skier(whom usually I have no use for).But after that experience I decided I need to learn to roll before I try the ocean again.
It has taken me over 2 1/2 years to finally get what I have gotten thus far. I was a person that believed I would never roll as well. Alot of others thought so too. I did not think I had the flexability(I am as flexable as a cinder block)to roll. I looked at videos on you tube, I bought numerous video's(Helen Wilson's "Simplfying the roll" helped me the most) and took numerous classes with a number of fine instructors.Never completed a roll till about a month ago. I spent a number of sessions in the pool this season. I progressed from a high brace to 180s, to sloppy 360s to reenter and roll (due to wet exit and sloppy technique). I still have a long way to go til I have a roll I can count on. My roll is not bomb proof or even snap n pop proof at point. But I finally have something to build off of as the water warms up. I am now looking forward to trying to take the next steps in a non pool environment.
Something that helped me the most was video taping my learning sessions. It gave me the chance to see alot of my bad habits. Seeing myself helped me correct parts of the roll. I still have alot of bad habits and will continue to be fine tune them over the next few weeks, months and years. I hope to progress this season enough to take a surf class next year(before ever trying the ocean again). But we will see.
OP: Good Luck in your quest to roll. I sure you will get it.
Here are a few video's of me learning. For every 1 minute of me hitting a roll shown, there is at least 5 minutes of the video not shown with me wet exiting due to a miss.
If you’re paddling whitewater in a re hardshell boat, you need to ask yourself what kind of paddler you want to be: one who attempts to be self sufficient, or not? That being said, we’re all between swims.
All good Celia as I mentioned to Jack I took the bait and should have stayed out of it altogether. I am getting too old and way too disinterested in getting in these kinds of discussions anymore.
I actually responded to several threads last night…must have been the mint chocolate chip ice cream…
I will scuttle away again for a few more months until I “sigh” take the bait on another one.
Desirable but not necessary I agree with everything said about the benefits and desirability of a roll, and I used to be able to roll open and decked canoes.
But if the question is whether it is NECESSARY, I have to answer with a solid no.
That’s because I am old enough to remember the times when EVERYONE in my whitewater club paddled open canoes and NO ONE could roll. Yet, we tripped every weekend all over the east coast, from Maine to West Virginia, including all the class 4 rivers. Dumping, swimming and rescuing were all simply part of the sport.
It may be true today that many WW clubs or WW groups simply won’t paddle with a closed boater who can’t roll. That’s a separate issue.
I found my WW open canoe roll to be fairly useless in combat. I would almost never dump in water less than class 4, and I could almost never roll in hard class 4 water.
I must say that I consider WW kayaks to be more dangerous and entrapping boats than open canoes, so I personally would be more highly motivated to learn to roll in a WW kayak than a WW canoe if paddling class 3.
what part of florida are you in? People might be able to recommend some instructors around you. It’s possible you’re just not aware of them.
Teaching yourself to roll is damn hard. I’d even say it’s nearly impossible to get a clean reliable roll that way. Even if it means driving a couple hours on a weekend morning to get to an instructor, I think you’ll be happy if you do. Some instructors will come a ways to meet you at a place that’s more convenient.
Glenn and Jack are correct and I suspect a lot of people who are chiming in here have never paddled the Nantahala and really don’t know what the heck they are talking about.
Thousands and thousands and thousands of people have taken swims on the Nantahala River and the number of healthy individuals (i.e, non-obese individuals who don’t have cardiac disease) who have drowned on it in the last 20 years can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Is foot entrapment possible in a shallow rocky rapid with swift current? Of course it is.
Is a roll desirable for decked boaters who paddle whitewater? Of course it is.
Do some healthy individuals who are reasonably athletic and quite intelligent have difficulty with the roll despite good instruction and watching any number of videos? Unfortunately, some do.
The question that was asked here is should a paddler who has some experience and is comfortable in the water shun the Nantahala River because he or she currently lacks a roll. My answer is no, and it is based on hundreds of runs on that river.
I believe I made a point that if the Nata met the requirements of being over knee height and 4 mph that your advice could be dangerous to wade to shore.
I have taken 2 swift water rescue classes (ACA) and in both, they have stress not to walk in those conditions and I never heard them exempt the Natahala, but then again I never asked them specifically. I just felt a need to post my concerns as several people read these post and might get the idea from you that its OK to wade to shore.
Wet exits and emptying those (non-compartmented) boats and starting again are a big PITA! Rolling maximizes your PADDLING time because you don't have to go through that exercise as often.
The only WW river I go to is shallow and rocky with closely-spaced bail-out points (it's a play park). Even so, paddling there became a lot more fun after I got a "real-life" roll. Paddling to shore is easier than dragging or pushing a swamped boat through hip-deep fast-moving water.
Paddling in ocean surf: ditto.
You can learn more if you roll to recover instead of wet exiting and re-entering every time. You just feel more comfortable trying new stuff. It's also much faster.
It's definitely worth the effort to keep on improving and practicing your roll.
Rolling along The Nantahala sees about 250,000 paddlers per year. There have been six fatalities related to foot entrapments. The site of the foot entrapment was inspected and filled in with rocks which eventually washed out. There was talk at one time about blasting but I doubt it ever came to be.
If you are an experienced boater who does not have a solid roll then you need to be aggressively working on a roll. Especially if you intend to continue to paddle and improve. If you are going to be in the area then take a clinic. NOC has a premier instructional program.
Can you paddle the Nantahala without a roll? Answer:YES
Should you paddle the Nantahala without a roll? Answer: That’s up to you and the degree to which you want to but yourself and your peers at risk.
Asking myself just the same question. (That’s a joke BTW)
I just got back from a swimming pool session. I’m an open boater, and always will be. Thing is, there’s just nothing for an open boater to paddle for a couple months of the year up here in the northern climes. So last year when I got a chance to buy a ww kayak on the cheap I did so - just to learn to roll over the winter and perhaps to use it to scout runs that I might want to be familiar with before I take a Prospector down them. Might as well learn SOMETHING paddle-related over the winter, no?
So, as one novice roller to another, it took me three two hour sessions to do a roll without a paddle float. Not such an arduous deal, and I suppose someone younger (I’m closing in fast on 60) might do it faster. I might have done it a bit faster myself but I spent perhaps more time than necessary practicing hip snaps at the pool’s edge while the limited time of the instructors was spent with others.
So just now I did one roll on first attempt, five rolls on second attempts, and two on third attempts. If I didn’t get them by the third attempt I “practiced” wet exiting - which, as an open boater, isn’t exactly instinctive either. Neither is attaching the spray skirt, for that matter.
I wouldn’t want to try anything right now that absolutely requires a roll and expect that I need to practice quite a bit to get it to where rolling is an instinctive thing rather than something that requires forethought and careful set-up, but if I can do it anyone can. And you will have better reason to learn it if you’ve got your heart set on the Nantahala.
So why not go for it? Its hasn’t proven to be that difficult and is now getting to be kind of enjoyable, in a weird sort of way.
But I have a killer leg cramp right now from just spending two hours in a Dancer. As an over six foot tall canoeist with feet that need to be contorted to fit, I find that to be an astoundingly uncomfortable boat to spend time in. In fact, I find myself wondering if, in my near 60 years of life, I’ve ever put my arse on any other object, floating or otherwise, that was quite that uncomfortable. I’ll be better in the morning, I’m sure, and will have a laugh about it. But right now my right calf is killing me.
So, “no pain, no gain”. But, speaking strictly for myself, I’m just now half wondering if this is exactly necessary… I suppose it’ll seem worthwhile when I go someplace I would otherwise feel intimidated by. Like perhaps the Nantahala.
Your experience doesn’t hold for all I rolled a kayak the first time I tried it, without any real instruction other than a verbal “sweep out with the paddle and hip snap up”, and I didn’t know what “hip snap” meant.
But I had developed an open boat roll before that, which I taught myself with the help of a Bob Foote video.
And I have taught a number of other people to roll a kayak within 15-30 minutes.
On the other hand, I have attempted to teach others who are younger than me, stronger than me, and more flexible than me to roll during multiple lessons, and in some cases, multiple other persons, some ACA certified instructors, tried to teach the same individuals without success.
I’m sure I’m “overthinking it”. I expect that’s why I blow the first attempts so often. Might come from too much instruction, or perhaps from too many. Maybe its just me. I’ve learned most of what (little?) I know on my own by thinking it through and trying. Its my habit. Sometimes instructors get me worried about not doing something I wouldn’t have thought of doing in the first place.
Hanging upside down from a kayak trying to remember what several people said and reviewing what went wrong last time doesn’t bode well for this time. By the second try I think I start just trying to get it done and breathe, and have fewer instructors in my head. Sooner or later this has to become instinctive. Sooner would be nice.
right I think inability to relax “heads down” is a major learning block for many. Some folks just seem to become completely disoriented, and more attempts at explanation seem to compound the problem.
I think for some people rolling is something they can’t physically understand until they do it themselves and feel it, sort of like learning to ride a bicycle. The problem is getting them to that point.
That was a 17 year old boy if I recall rightly who got his foot caught in the crack at the falls, and I think they did in fact fill it with concrete, and declared it safe when they were done.
Great hot button topic. I think most of the responses here are good, and a few result from ego protection.
Learning a roll is easy if you have the right instruction. There is no magic to it whatsoever. Once you do it you will understand how it was originally developed from an intuitive 'reflex response' to capsize. Anyone can do it. Last summer I watched an out-of-shape 230# 50 year-old man nail it in one lesson. I think this point is paramount if we want to welcome more people to kayaking.
Do not make this "rocket science" to newbies. It is not. The sport is easy to learn and only takes a commitment to master. You do not have to be particularly 'athletic'.
If you are paddling flatwater, the importance is pretty minor. IMO, if you are paddling class II or III, it isn't essential but important:
-it will aid in a quicker recovery
-it will give you more confidence
-it will give your PADDLING PARTNERS more confidence
-it will give you a better sense of the handling dynamics and limits of your boat.
Contrary to some of the opinions here you can teach yourself the shallow limits of rolling. You will be surprised how shallow that limit is. I was.
I'm fine with people saying it isn't important to them, or in flatwater conditions. I think it's nonsense to reject it out of hand as unimportant because of the side benefits I listed above. I was hesitant, right until I learned. Then I was kicking myself for not learning earlier.
If you cannot roll or do not wish to roll, that is your choice and doesn't mean you are a lesser person. What it does mean is that if you quit trying, you have drawn a limit to what point you will explore kayaking. Nothing wrong with that either.
there have been a total of six deaths on the Nantahala the most recent of which was in 2003, and 5 were felt to be due to foot entrapment.
If memory serves, one was felt to be due to a heart attack sustained by an overweight individual who fell out of a raft and was pulled out of the water conscious but then arrested minutes later.
Not all of the 5 foot entrapments were at Nantahala Falls, however. I believe 2 occurred at Patton's Run, both of which occurred when individuals who fell out of a raft tried to walk across the rocks.
The most recent death was an entrapment in debris at an undercut rock. This rock is really not in any rapid worthy of the name, and the eddy behind it had been used for many years in countless NOC paddling clinics. It is on river right around half way down the run. The victim was a 15 year old boy from Pennsylvania. A sign has now been placed at this rock that says "Danger Keep Left".
The other two occurred at Nantahala Falls. For over a decade, hundreds, if not thousands of individuals had swum this rapid and survived but then in around 1989 there was a drowning due to foot entrapment and a second in 1990 at exactly the same spot. The area was inspected by NOC staff after the second drowning and a crevice was identified which was felt to be the culprit and filled in with cemented rocks.
After a flood later that year, however, the rocks which were placed were found to have been dislodged. I don't know of any further attempts to modify the rapid since then, or of any further drownings at that site.
The OP stated the question pretty clearly. And your assumption that people who disagree with you are ignorant really says more about you than it does them.
