or to get eaten while trying not to get eaten by practicing not getting eaten…I am confused.
Either way it only ends well for an alligator. But your chances increase along with the time you remain uneaten because you get better at not getting eaten,
@SpaceSputnik said:
^ to risk being eaten while practicing for the event where you might get eaten, Hmm…
A good reason to take some pool lessons
My local club does practice sessions on assisted rescues a couple of times a year. I try to go at least once to practice. Self rescues I practice whenever I swim, which is usually a couple of times a year.
Roll 10 times every day, well…
Several years ago my back went out. Ever since then I’ve been doing morning ‘stretches’ every day to help prevent any more ‘back problems’.
Incorporated in the ‘stretches’ is a set of ‘simulated’ rolls.
I’ll roll for fun occasionally (or by necessity in bouncy surf), but no set ‘practice’.
I have a pool in the back yard so… I’ll do some braces and 10 or 20 rolls most days when the pool’s open and not too cold…about 5 months of the year. I don’t see needing rescue. However I don’t get any practice helping out others.
I would definitely want a reliable roll if I paddled with alligators.
@Rex said:
I would definitely want a reliable roll if I paddled with alligators.
Probably a one-armed roll and a sheared-off paddle roll as well.
I avoid rescue practice in swampy areas, as common sense dictates. That said, there’s generally an alligator in any decent sized Florida lake, including the 'burbs. You are not their normal diet, but “accidents” happen, especially in low visibility areas and around weeds.
While mild-mannered, manatees are actually more of hazard in many areas. They are often barely submerged in very shallow water, and many a kayaker has capsized when the water literally exploded under them like a depth charge detonation. In some cases they knock you airborne. Virtually every Water Tribe racer who does the Everglades Challenge has tales of being scared-to-death by a “manatee encounter”, often at night.
Greg
Sounds like manatees warrant a reliable roll… and a change of underwear.
Every time I fall out.
Why waste time practicing rescues if you just learn to roll properly. Sure I can cowboy scramble if I wanted to but I would always just re-enter and roll. If you EVER say you roll can fail then you don’t have a proper roll. I can just float up into a balance brace then from balance brace just slide right up. no real roll required. Us Greenlanders can do this.
If you’re shark and gator phobic don’t paddle in Florida. Take up golf or move back north.
^ or see a good therapist about a gradual gator exposure therapy. You will be comfortable in no time 
@dc9mm said:
Why waste time practicing rescues if you just learn to roll properly. Sure I can cowboy scramble if I wanted to but I would always just re-enter and roll. If you EVER say you roll can fail then you don’t have a proper roll. I can just float up into a balance brace then from balance brace just slide right up. no real roll required. Us Greenlanders can do this.
There is a quote I distinctly remember, and it was written a while back on paddling.net - “even gods swim”. This was posted as a response to Sean Morely having to swim. Don’t remember the situation, and that doesn’t really matter, as even the best of the best out there swim every once in a while - not just Sean. Maybe more rarely than the rest of us, but they still do.
These folks have multiple types of bulletproof rolls and don’t swim under any normal conditions/situations, but non-normal situations do occur. Especially, when you push things. Often involve one or more of lost/broken paddle, blown skirt, boderline-extreme conditions, etc.
To prevent tragedies, what these “gods” all do is have as many tools in their tool kit as they can. Roll, roll using half a spare paddle off their deck, re-enter and roll, paddlefloat roll, hand roll, etc. ate all great, but they also make sure they know and practice other ways to get back in their boats.
@Peter-CA said:
@dc9mm said:
Why waste time practicing rescues if you just learn to roll properly. Sure I can cowboy scramble if I wanted to but I would always just re-enter and roll. If you EVER say you roll can fail then you don’t have a proper roll. I can just float up into a balance brace then from balance brace just slide right up. no real roll required. Us Greenlanders can do this.There is a quote I distinctly remember, and it was written a while back on paddling.net - “even gods swim”. This was posted as a response to Sean Morely having to swim. Don’t remember the situation, and that doesn’t really matter, as even the best of the best out there swim every once in a while - not just Sean. Maybe more rarely than the rest of us, but they still do.
These folks have multiple types of bulletproof rolls and don’t swim under any normal conditions/situations, but non-normal situations do occur. Especially, when you push things. Often involve one or more of lost/broken paddle, blown skirt, boderline-extreme conditions, etc.
To prevent tragedies, what these “gods” all do is have as many tools in their tool kit as they can. Roll, roll using half a spare paddle off their deck, re-enter and roll, paddlefloat roll, hand roll, etc. ate all great, but they also make sure they know and practice other ways to get back in their boats.
Good points. While the OP’s question was directed to “long-term” paddlers, it’s been an interesting read. Your comments remind me of an article by Wayne Horodowich which included the following:
“Derek Hutchinson once told me ‘Rolling is a sign of success. Having to roll is a sign of failure.’ If some of that rolling desire were spent on bracing skills then the roll may not be needed. Since you are bound to miss a roll sooner or later how much time have you spent on your solo and assisted recovery skills? Also, are you dressed for immersion when you do end up swimming? Did you bring a paddle float and a pump or did you think you would just roll up? Read Derek Hutchinson’s ‘Eskimo Rolling’ book. He has great stories of many famous paddlers telling their tale of the day when their roll left town without them.”
@gstamer said:
While mild-mannered, manatees are actually more of hazard in many areas. >
Always the ‘jokester’:
One of my first paddles after moving down here several years ago, out on a ‘club’ paddle on the St Johns, a ‘long timer’ said to me, “hey, look at that ‘rock’ over there”.
I placed my paddle in the water, to ‘touch’ the rock, trying to figure out why such a large rock would be there - seemed very much out of place.
All of the sudden there was a ‘torpedo’, as the manatee took off.
Just a few splashes on me, but, indeed, they are something to watch for.
For their size, it is amazing how quickly they can move (especially from a dead stop)
Just looked up what manatees are. You guys live interesting lives
If I’m on doing some longer trips, I tend to get board just paddling in my local areas because I do it often. So I tend to spice it up with practice sessions. Rolls and unassisted re-entries are the norm. I mix it up from time-to-time with wet re-entries and assisted rescues depending on who I am with.
I practice it to build skills for ACA and BCU certs, but also so that if I ever really need it, I got it in my bag of tricks.
@raisins said:
For their size, it is amazing how quickly they can move (especially from a dead stop)
Males generally can be 1,000# Females can get to 1,800#.
First of all: Any method which can get you back into your kayak from swimming, unassisted, ending up sitting upright, is in my book a self rescue. My preferred self rescue is a reentry&roll which fulfill those terms. But the reentry&roll is so different from a normal roll that it needs to be trained separately.
With that said, I have never really understood the “I can roll so I don’t need to train self rescue” mentality.
To me, sea kayak safety is layered. You train/prepare something so you can prevent something else from happening. But if this “something else” happens anyway, you have trained/prepared for that too. So for a real accident to happen, it would have to penetrate several layers of training and preparation.
Following that line of thought, I train both braces, rolling and self rescue. Three independent layers in my safety.
A wild, invented example: On a long crossing, I hit something and get a hole in the front of my kayak. I have brought repair kit with me, but I need to leave the cockpit and capsize the kayak to reach the damaged area and repair it. When done, I would like to get back into the kayak. In that case, only my self rescue skills count.