Not arguing that part
I was not arguing for the necessity of a roll for all - that’s why I listed the scenarios. There are tons of paddlers who never will and are not likely to need to, my sister included.
What I did say was that giving it a try tends to improve other skills, and practicing (anything) in a heated pool can be enjoyable.
Interestingly, one of the paddlers who came to rolling sessions locally a couple of seasons ago had a prosthetic arm. So he could only roll on one side. But he was doing an impressive of that - was hitting a higher percentage than I was that night.
which Seal’s
skirt do you have and for what boat?
They list the size for the specific boat.
The only problem I had was the tunnel fit that was too big. I wanted to call Seals but they don’t list a contact phone number.
I remember the thread you started on how impressed you were with their customer service on the phone but they only have some comment or question submission to fill out.
So I just sent mine back for a full refund.
Count Your Blessings
The original arctic kayakers were sewn into their boats.
individual…
"There is such a great variety of paddlers, kayaks, and styles of paddling. It’s important to respect the personal decisions that informed people make for themselves, after considering their skills, age, infirmities, confidence, etc. I’ve been in, on, and around the water and in the woods for over 5 decades and seem to make wise decisions. "
No disrespect. But it seems your initial rational of having a tight neoprene skirt as a safety aid is not one that majority of paddlers would share.
Typically, most paddlers start out with no skirt, then graduate to a nylon skirt after they got more comfortable with the boat. And only when they start rolling that they would consider a neoprene skirt precisely for its tight grip on the cromming…
Your jumping into a neoprene skirt and finding yourself unable to get it on or off is rather a unique individual situation. For anyone to THINK tight skirt means safety is rather foolhardy. I certainly never heard that from anybody until now.
Edge leaks and popping off at the edge
may mean that the skirt in question is just a shade tight crossways. My old SEALS skirt does leak at the sides, but in its case it is due to the primitive rand SEALs was using at the time. I have a Snapdragon now that is a bit harder to get on the rim, but releases easy and does not leak a bit.
I try to avoid buying skirts by mail order. I bought the Snapdragon after parking my kayak in front of NOC and taking several skirts down to try them on the boat.
Clarification
I think if you read all of my posts carefully you will find that I said the opposite of what you think I said in all cases.
I acquired this sprayskirt unintentionally—it came with a kayak I bought. I have never used it and don’t intend to use it. It doesn’t fit my kayak, my needs, or my capabilities. I’m just trying to sell it and give sound information to potential buyers who keep asking, “Will this fit my kayak?”
Off the rails
Just a bit. Granted it was unclear how waterbird had ended up with a skirt that was so difficult for her to use, but her first response to it was to confirm whether this was a good idea or a bad one. She then posted what she’d been told for general comment. All general discussion.
I didn’t see any argument from her that a super tight skirt was a good thing for safety, just a question about whether someone might think this to be true. For someone who is not a regular user of a neo deck skirt, this is a fair question.
Fair question
It’s a question I had answered earlier:
-----------------------------------------
“I wonder if using a sprayskirt gives some people an illusion of safety, when they don’t have ocean skills or they have the wrong kayak or wrong sprayskirt.”
I doubt.
-----------------------------------
Any reasonable person should (and 99% of them WILL) worry about the safety of a tight skirt when they don’t know how to roll.
So, it’s my opinion that a too-tight skirt is unlikely to create a false sense of safety. It’s much more likely it rings the alarm bell loud enough that they’ll go without the skirt (or get one that fits properly)
it’s not that simple as getting a number
Just like pant sizes. Not all pants of the same size fit the same.
Personally non-stretchable(“nylon”) skirts are a bad proposition all around and there are better alternatives. I’ve had some nylon skirts that were harder to put on and take off than neoprene. Since fabric doesn’t stretch a person in fabric skirt is likely to have it pop off when leaning far to one side. Better to look around for an easy to remove neoprene skirt or variations on a skirt that can fit OVER the pfd.
A long time ago I had an Aquaterra neoprene skirt with adjustable tunnel and rand. It was the perfect “one size fits all” skirt. I wish they still made it.
cold water
– Last Updated: Sep-30-09 2:32 PM EST –
We were definitly convinced to go for "waterproof" neoprene skirts the very 1st time we went kayaking.
We were newbies going in rented kayaks with guides. They gave us nylon sprayskirts.
The 1st waves of icy cold water and we were drenched and freezing.
Even now with the neoprene, sometimes water will trickle through or wet out after several hrs and start dripping inside, though a nuasance but liveable.
Got a new sprayskirt the other day and realized it's not just the size of the skirt or tunnel but also of the location of the tunnel...with this new boat the seat is very close to the coaming..with other boats the seat is actually several inches away from the coaming.
So buying the corect size, for the coaming, the Seal skirt leaves a bunch of material bunched up behind me, yet it is awkward to pull tight to the forward coaming.
That is why, I think, boats are often sold with their accompaning sprayskirts.
Hope that makes sense and is not adding more confusion..
yep
it’s funny to try on some skirts and feel like you’re being pulled back or forward.
nylon vs. neo
You can have both (combination neo deck nylon tunnel)
Yup
People kept asking if this sprayskirt would fit their kayak. After a while I started to suspect that certain inquirers were making the simple assumption, “If I have a spray skirt I can go out on the ocean safely.” Some of those folks had a kayak not meant for the ocean and no ocean experience or knowledge of using a sprayskirt. That made me want to learn more about this topic, and I have from this thread.
Weed my wips
I didn’t say, “I wonder if using a TIGHT sprayskirt gives some people an illusion of safety, when they don’t have ocean skills or they have the wrong kayak or wrong sprayskirt.” I wondered if using ANY sprayskirt gives uninformed people the impression they can head out on the high seas without experience. I wouldn’t say these folks are “not reasonable.” They are just not well informed.
Excellent article, thanks!!
I especially appreciate this part: “Each individual kayaker must decide what his or her priorities are when purchasing a new sprayskirt. The difficulty of the water you paddle, your ability level and confidence, the likelihood that you will need to make an emergency exit, your tolerance for leakage, your strength and body habitus, and, of course, your ability to pay are all important considerations.”
This article makes me sympathetic for manufacturers, who have to deal with so many frequently changing variables with each new kayak on the market.
“I wonder”…
– Last Updated: Sep-30-09 4:41 PM EST –
You "wonder" about it. And I gave my opinion.
You don't have to agree with my opinion. But if you still want to split hairs...
I don't believe skirt alone, whether it's too tight or not, cause false sense of safety. Period.
Ooooohhhh I seeeeeee
What boat?
It sounds like you may have moved from a larger cockpit boat to something leaner. The seat position closer to the back of the cockpit is more the norm in a lower profile sea kayak. You may find a number of people here with the same boat and an ability to recommend a skirt size/fit.
LOL as to the cold water - this is the time of year that folks who rent kayaks for evening paddles on local rivers suddenly realize why so many of us are using skirts, or waterproof pants and mukluks in canoes.
cold
Actually I bought an Immersion skirt to fit a Boreal Design Ellesmere (old style with rope skeg)
Normally I paddle an Eddyline Night Hawk but the Ellsmere is 4lbs lighter and 1 foot longer.
Both are listed for using the same sprayskirt, but in real life it doesn’t quite work out.
I’m going to order a Boreal Design sprayskirt for the Ellsmere.
The Imersion skirt should hold me over but it was mighty hard putting it on with cold hands today.
I keep having to remind myself that many people here actually live and paddle in warm water.
Here in New Engand it’s getting a bit nippy and colorful for the fall.
Yup - diff seat arrangements
As I recall there is a different approach to the seat placement in those two boats (I like the Ellesmere better).