How tight does a sprayskirt need to be?

Thanks, exactly what I was getting at
A guy contacted me to buy this skirt for his wife (over 50, I think). I advised against it. I thought there was a real safety issue, especially if the person has not had instruction.



Re nylon for rolling: What you said is exactly what I meant, that neoprene is best for rolling, so if you don’t intend to roll (some people never will, self included), you can go with easier-fitting nylon.



Thanks for confirming that one can choose how tight the skirt is, and for the other additional info on bungies etc. Very helpful info.



I just wanted people to know that choosing a sprayskirt is more than just a size number. First there’s the decision whether a sprayskirt would ever be safe for an individual, given a person’s age, gender, fitness, etc. And then, what type of sprayskirt and how tight.



I wonder if using a sprayskirt gives some people an illusion of safety, when they don’t have ocean skills or they have the wrong kayak or wrong sprayskirt.






.
“I wonder if using a sprayskirt gives some people an illusion of safety, when they don’t have ocean skills or they have the wrong kayak or wrong sprayskirt.”



I doubt.



Most people don’t get skirts to be safe. People typically go to rough water without skirts and then realize they NEED one. So if they don’t have the skill to handle the water, they won’t go back there. And the skirt would never even enter the equation.

One reason for shrinkage is that the
Have you stepped on the scales lately? :o) OK, I’m just kidding…I think. :o)

“Intending to roll”

– Last Updated: Sep-29-09 11:24 AM EST –

This phrase always gives me pause. For anyone with a full out sea kayak who may also paddle alone, or on colder or more unpredictable water, a roll is usually safer self-rescue than the alternatives.

Even if you never get the thing, the improvement in bracing skills you get out of trying to learn to roll is tremendous. A successful brace can head off a lot of problems.

Have you considered at least giving it a go in something like a pool session over the winter?

BTW, overconfidence seems to spring from many things - sprayskirt is probably near the lower end of the list.

My friend had me help him
last week get his WW skirt on his Prion. He insisted this was the correct one for his kayak. It took two 200+ plus men of relatively strong arms and back to force this thing onto his combing. No way could he sit inside while I helped. We both had to be out of the kayak and forcefully coordinating our efforts. I say he totally has the wrong product. What good is a skirt that takes two gorrillas to pull over the combing while the paddler tries to assist from the cockpit? I have seen folks plop the yak on the beach and self attach before the 7 seconds to next wave. This thing takes a couple minutes to attach. I would be shopping.

John Lee Hooker wrote a great song
called Long Legs, Tight Skirt. Probably not what you are talking about.



Dogmaticus

Individual differences private decisions
There is such a great variety of paddlers, kayaks, and styles of paddling. It’s important to respect the personal decisions that informed people make for themselves, after considering their skills, age, infirmities, confidence, etc. I’ve been in, on, and around the water and in the woods for over 5 decades and seem to make wise decisions.



What we can do, and what we want to do, changes over the course of our lifetime. Considering that people with serious physical handicaps—including no arms!—kayak, you can’t really make any rigid statements about the necessity of rolling for all kayakers. There needs to be room for individual differences.


sprayskirt info
Aimed at whitewater, but principles apply to all:

http://www.mountainsurf.com/customer_service.php?page_id=19



Also:

------------

Q: What is the difference between bombproof and EZ-ON?



A: We offer Dur-O-Ring sprayskirts in both bombproof and EZ-ON fits for any cockpit size. The bombproof dur-O-Ring (red ripcord) is designed for those paddlers demanding the most from their skirt. It is the drier and most secure stock skirt available. We make no apologies for the bombproof being very stiff going on and off, but this is what the pros swear by when it counts. Most paddlers don’t need or want a skirt this tight. The EZ-On Dur-O-Ring (gold ripcord) is identical to the bombproof but has more elasticity in the rand allowing the skirt to go on and off with less effort. The EZ-ON skirt will perform flawlessly under all but the most violent conditions.

The skns shrink too
I think the outer skins shrink too. I had a custom wet suit and in 3 years I was squeezing into it and wearing the same pants size.

Not arguing that part
I was not arguing for the necessity of a roll for all - that’s why I listed the scenarios. There are tons of paddlers who never will and are not likely to need to, my sister included.



What I did say was that giving it a try tends to improve other skills, and practicing (anything) in a heated pool can be enjoyable.



Interestingly, one of the paddlers who came to rolling sessions locally a couple of seasons ago had a prosthetic arm. So he could only roll on one side. But he was doing an impressive of that - was hitting a higher percentage than I was that night.

which Seal’s
skirt do you have and for what boat?



They list the size for the specific boat.



The only problem I had was the tunnel fit that was too big. I wanted to call Seals but they don’t list a contact phone number.



I remember the thread you started on how impressed you were with their customer service on the phone but they only have some comment or question submission to fill out.



So I just sent mine back for a full refund.
















Count Your Blessings
The original arctic kayakers were sewn into their boats.

individual…
"There is such a great variety of paddlers, kayaks, and styles of paddling. It’s important to respect the personal decisions that informed people make for themselves, after considering their skills, age, infirmities, confidence, etc. I’ve been in, on, and around the water and in the woods for over 5 decades and seem to make wise decisions. "



No disrespect. But it seems your initial rational of having a tight neoprene skirt as a safety aid is not one that majority of paddlers would share.



Typically, most paddlers start out with no skirt, then graduate to a nylon skirt after they got more comfortable with the boat. And only when they start rolling that they would consider a neoprene skirt precisely for its tight grip on the cromming…



Your jumping into a neoprene skirt and finding yourself unable to get it on or off is rather a unique individual situation. For anyone to THINK tight skirt means safety is rather foolhardy. I certainly never heard that from anybody until now.

Edge leaks and popping off at the edge
may mean that the skirt in question is just a shade tight crossways. My old SEALS skirt does leak at the sides, but in its case it is due to the primitive rand SEALs was using at the time. I have a Snapdragon now that is a bit harder to get on the rim, but releases easy and does not leak a bit.



I try to avoid buying skirts by mail order. I bought the Snapdragon after parking my kayak in front of NOC and taking several skirts down to try them on the boat.

Clarification
I think if you read all of my posts carefully you will find that I said the opposite of what you think I said in all cases.



I acquired this sprayskirt unintentionally—it came with a kayak I bought. I have never used it and don’t intend to use it. It doesn’t fit my kayak, my needs, or my capabilities. I’m just trying to sell it and give sound information to potential buyers who keep asking, “Will this fit my kayak?”

Off the rails
Just a bit. Granted it was unclear how waterbird had ended up with a skirt that was so difficult for her to use, but her first response to it was to confirm whether this was a good idea or a bad one. She then posted what she’d been told for general comment. All general discussion.



I didn’t see any argument from her that a super tight skirt was a good thing for safety, just a question about whether someone might think this to be true. For someone who is not a regular user of a neo deck skirt, this is a fair question.

Fair question
It’s a question I had answered earlier:



-----------------------------------------

“I wonder if using a sprayskirt gives some people an illusion of safety, when they don’t have ocean skills or they have the wrong kayak or wrong sprayskirt.”



I doubt.



-----------------------------------



Any reasonable person should (and 99% of them WILL) worry about the safety of a tight skirt when they don’t know how to roll.



So, it’s my opinion that a too-tight skirt is unlikely to create a false sense of safety. It’s much more likely it rings the alarm bell loud enough that they’ll go without the skirt (or get one that fits properly)

it’s not that simple as getting a number
Just like pant sizes. Not all pants of the same size fit the same.



Personally non-stretchable(“nylon”) skirts are a bad proposition all around and there are better alternatives. I’ve had some nylon skirts that were harder to put on and take off than neoprene. Since fabric doesn’t stretch a person in fabric skirt is likely to have it pop off when leaning far to one side. Better to look around for an easy to remove neoprene skirt or variations on a skirt that can fit OVER the pfd.



A long time ago I had an Aquaterra neoprene skirt with adjustable tunnel and rand. It was the perfect “one size fits all” skirt. I wish they still made it.

cold water

– Last Updated: Sep-30-09 2:32 PM EST –

We were definitly convinced to go for "waterproof" neoprene skirts the very 1st time we went kayaking.
We were newbies going in rented kayaks with guides. They gave us nylon sprayskirts.
The 1st waves of icy cold water and we were drenched and freezing.

Even now with the neoprene, sometimes water will trickle through or wet out after several hrs and start dripping inside, though a nuasance but liveable.

Got a new sprayskirt the other day and realized it's not just the size of the skirt or tunnel but also of the location of the tunnel...with this new boat the seat is very close to the coaming..with other boats the seat is actually several inches away from the coaming.

So buying the corect size, for the coaming, the Seal skirt leaves a bunch of material bunched up behind me, yet it is awkward to pull tight to the forward coaming.
That is why, I think, boats are often sold with their accompaning sprayskirts.
Hope that makes sense and is not adding more confusion..

yep
it’s funny to try on some skirts and feel like you’re being pulled back or forward.