Hullavator two boat/one vehicle safety issues?

Advice
#1

Question: Is it safe to use two Hullavator racks for two kayaks on one vehicle (specifically 2024 Subaru Forester Wilderness?) Answer from Thule: Apparently not.

I’ve recently had an interesting back-and-forth with Thule 's main office about using two Hullavators on my vehicle. This started with a question about crossbar width, but became focused on the use of two Hullavators on one vehicle. Their bottom line is, even if the total weight capacity of one’s rack system exceeds the weight capacity of two Hullavators, they do not recommend using two because they haven’t tested this configuration. I got a very clear warning not to do so, with the explanation that “we do not test for a pair of Hullavators.”

One would think they would be interested in increasing sales, at $899 per side of the Hullavator, plus approximately $500 for a set of their crossbars and feet. So, this is apparently a serious enough issue that I would be sent a warning against using two of their racks.

If this is a problem, Thule should be warning all purchasers against using two of their racks on one vehicle, as well as following through on a legal obligation they have to notify the CPSC (–as long as they are in effect, at least) and states’ attorney generals of this safety issue.

I’ve run two Tooenjoy racks on several different vehicles with no problem over at least 10,000 miles. These racks are about 50% heavier (welded steel) than the Thule product. Their (Tooenjoy) helpdesk was very supportive of using two racks on one car, providing me with helpful information. Why consider a move away from the Tooenjoy? My wife isn’t large enough to pull the Tooenjoy rack down, with or without a boat on it.

I’m curious if anyone has received explicit information from a dealer or from Thule concerning this? Any paddling lawyers out there with comments? Given this information, what would be one’s legal risk of running two Hullavators on one vehicle?

#2

Among our Club members a number of people have been using two Hullavators on their vehicles for years with no problems. Sounds like typical CYA recommended by their lawyers for things that they haven’t specifically tested for. As long as the total weight does not exceed the vehicles roof and the rack system, I don’t see where there would be a problem.

If they were honest they could just say that they haven’t tested that configuration and don’t really know or have a fact based opinion.

#3

Honestly we have carried two sea kayaks on the Outback and a Forester but not with the Hulivators.

We use the Hulivators on the truck where you use a hulivator that brings the kayak from a 7 ft loading height to chest high. Of course the truck rack is an adjustable Thule rack because the Hulivators didn’t work well with my Yakima round racks. That and the round racks were taller.

Hulivators sit on the rack outboard of the side of the vehicle. They are not compatible with the factory Subaru racks . The outboard mount is necessary for the cradle to unlock, rise up, pivot vertically and come down outside of the doors without touches ng the car/truck etc . The cradles are heavy. Two boats, and four cradles would be heavier than the Subaru roof rack capacities. I bought my Outback because it was low. I can’t reason why you’d need Hulivators on a Subaru.

To make it work you’d need a Thule rack with long bars. That might be easier than finding the towers and Q - clips to make it work with your gutter less roof line. That is probably the problem. I can see a conflict with the Subaru switch blade roof rack system.

Have hauled sea kayaks on the Hulivators these last7+ years, they’ve done 66,000 miles in front of the travel trailer.

#4

I’m a Thule dealer, have been for 30+ years, and would never recommend two Hullavators on any car unless each of the two kayaks was under 40 pounds. The Hullavators weigh 40 lbs each set - two of them comes to 80 lbs. Thules’s standard load limit is 165 lbs, and the 80 lbs of Hullavators count against that, so you only have 85 lbs worth of kayaks to load there, and unless you’re buying a pair of Stellars, chances are you’re overloading the rack.

Trailers exist.

#5

As my wife asks, why isn’t this public knowledge? We’ve spoken with two dealers who are not at all hesitant to sell two for use on one vehicle. There’s nothing about this in the install document we have for our first set. I just looked.

As others have noted, there sure are a lot of people driving lots of miles with a dual setup. Perhaps it’s good this is getting some visibility.

Yes, trailers exist. And, other sports exist. We’ll likely put the one we have on Craigslist and stick with the Tooenjoys.

1 Like
#6

Given Thule’s direct warning, the safer and legally more sound approach would be to either reconsider the need for two Hullavators, explore a trailer, or choose a different rack system that explicitly supports carrying two kayaks without exceeding any stated weight limits or manufacturer recommendations.

#7

ED11 asked …"why isn’t this public knowledge "

Perhaps it is.

… My Subaru manual tells me the capacity of my roof rack is 150#.
…measuring the roof rack it is 42" clear between the switch blade housings.
… My cradles weigh 15# each. 4x15= 60# (+ the mounts +/- 5#)
…my cradles are 30" wide, 2x30=60" and that would be tight boats would likely hit at beam.
…my boats are sea kayaks 1@14’, 45# and 1@16’, 48#…two together 93#. Our former 17’ kayaks were 60# each.

To put boats on Hulivators on the Subaru would mean I’d have to mount 153# ( plus 5 to 10# x 4) on a rack rated for only 150#. I’d have to mount 60 inches in a space only 42" wide/long. I suspect since you already have one Hulivator , one Subaru and two kayaks you could already have that information.

#8

My boats are kevlar, and total weight WITH two Hullavators is less than Max, per dealer and manual. All of this was presented to Thule both verbally and via email.

Same result.

#9

Thule said that they do not recommend two Hullavators because they had not tested that configuration. Their response was likely for liability reasons. I assume that they not outright say it was unsafe or would not work if it was within the weight limits for the vehicle .

I know plenty of people that have been using two Hullavators for years with no issues. I would be tempted myself except for the cost.

#10

Thule has never tested the use of two hullavators on a vehicle? Yeah, right, sure. That doesn’t pass the funny look test.

#11

Probably meant that they had not tested two Hullavators on enough vehicles and rack combinations to come to a consistent conclusion. Perhaps they were worried that too many people would exceed the weight limits or that the weight limits did not adequately consider the stress of two long kayaks at highway speeds and with crosswinds on the rack components combined with weights close to the limit. Again, a liability issue, and for the very small number of people that would want two Hullavators on a vehicle. Safer to not approve the practice at the cost of a few sales.

#12

Just think of how many different vehicles manufacturers and models they’d have to test.

#13

Thanks for all of the feedback. I’ll be getting rid of the one Hullavator I own.

I believe Thule must have an internal award for the most outrageous, logically inconsistent, factually incorrect answer to a customer question.

This morning, Thule support contacted me with a message that includes:

“It is not a safety concern as we do test the limits of our system but we do not test two Hullavators due to most vehicles not having the weight limit or width to support this.” …

The whole back and forth with Thule has been about safety. The general case is used as a logical argument to counter an example of an outlier vehicle with both reinforced roof and rack with higher capacities.

and “The other issue is width, in many states if anything goes outside the mirrors, it is a violation and to get two Hullavators on the vehicle you would need at least 65-70” crossbars."

For the record (and, note that this is and Internet search result, but I believe it is correct):

"No U.S. state, including Washington, requires rooftop loads to fit specifically within the width defined by a vehicle’s exterior mirrors. The widespread legal standard is that the total outside width of any vehicle or its load must not exceed 8.5ft (102in). External rearview mirrors are legally permitted to extend past this width for safety but are not included when measuring load width. The law does not use mirror width as the boundary for legal rooftop loads.

For Washington State in particular, RCW 46.44.010 sets the outside width limit at 8.5ft for any vehicle or load. It specifically notes that external mirrors may extend past this limit as needed for safety and compliance with federal regulations, but this is an exception only for mirrors—not for cargo or rooftop loads. No Washington law matches rooftop or load width to the width spanned by the mirrors.

In summary:

No U.S. state (including WA) requires rooftop loads to fit within a vehicle’s mirror span.

The legal requirement is that the combined width of the vehicle and its load does not exceed the statutory maximum (typically 8.5ft).

Mirrors may extend beyond this load width, but this does not set a new cargo limit."

Thanks for all of the input. I’m done with Thule; I’ll be removing the one I have in a few minutes, and putting it on Craigslist. REI will be having Hullavators on sale in late August (my source says it’ll be for just over $700 per unit). If you go this route, keep in mind that only one is allowed.

#14

What do you plan to replace it with? Why not use one Hullavator with one J-rack or saddle set?

Personally, if I wanted to spend the money and the roof and rack were rated for the weight, I would go with two Hullavators. I think it would be more accurate to say that only one is recommended by Thule rather than only one is allowed.

#15

I have a pair of Tooenjoy racks. Their support folks endorsed using two on one vehicle. Our planned move to the Thule product was because we incorrectly thought my small stature wife would be able to operate it. As it turned out, that wasn’t the case with the height of our rack off the ground.

The problem I found with Thule is that they won’t take in information and make a reasoned determination. I’ve a PhD in a technical field, and paid for most of my education as a (certified) auto mechanic. The data indicates this should be safe, but since I’ve created a ‘paper trail,’ we’re just going back to the Tooenjoy racks to avoid future issues.

As it turns out, the Tooenjoy racks are 3.5 lbs (according to Tooenjoy) lighter than the Hullavator. Their capacity is 100 lbs per rack. They are cheaper, and we’re using them on 54" crossbars (which, incidentally worked perfectly with one hullavator split to see about side clearance, 100 mm or 4 inches between rack and car side). They are taller, but we have 4" of clearance to get into our 7 foot garage door opening with both boats on. And, I don’t get a commission if anyone buys them.

For the record, just in case anyone is interested in the weight capacity I’m dealing with, from Subaru (contact included):

"Thanks for reaching out. I looked into your question, and the dynamic (moving) load capacity for the roof rack is 220 lbs, while the static (parked) load capacity is 800 lbs. So with your setup around 150 lbs, you should be in good shape.

Here’s the link to the source if you’d like to check it out: 2024_Forester_Wilderness_Brochure_050824.pdf

Let me know if you have any other questions—I’m happy to help!

Malinda
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer Advocacy Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783, Option 1, Extension 119347)"

#16

We occasionally use one of these step stools. Real inexpensive and fold flat. The are several options like a two pack, and a two pack with an 8.5" and a 12.5" step stool. Might help your wife with the Tooenjoy racks.