I realize I’m no longer enjoying this forum

So, I was a member here back in 2012-2015ish… back when the site was paddling.net. I remember that because I still have a silver Paddling.net sticker on the bow of my kayak.
But, I left because I went through a lot personally, moved to an area where I had to leave my kayak and stuff over an hour away in storage for several years, then got into an accident.
Last month, things have come around where I could go get my boat and get her back in the water for the first time in nearly a decade.

First thing I did was come back here, had to make a new account, and then I eagerly started reading the forums as I missed what used to be here. A lively conversation, great recommendations, and yeah the occasional purist that “Oh, brand XYZ is not a real kayak…” (You get those people everywhere)

I spent about an hour reading through the forums only to be let down.
I realized today, the tab was still open in my browser and I thought I would check for any new posts and found this.

I can’t agree with the OP more. This is not the site I knew, loved and depended on all those years ago.

I hate to say it, but the different kayak related subreddits have better discussions these days.

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All that is still here as well

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The irony is that I’m removing my content and there is a limit on how much an author can delete in the span of time. Last night the delete option put me on a 23 hour hold.

Be patient with me, I have three more hours to wait. My rubble will be cleaned up in a jiffy

That might be true but it’s probably the same way in the other direction if new people are getting lectures about PFDs no matter what they are doing.

The key to surviving the interweb is to just keep searching for the information you want and not take things personally.

People have been very helpful and there is a range of opinions.

Also some of these discussions are funny if you have a sense of humor about life.

I like hearing what people believe even if it is not what I believe at this time :wink:

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Please don’t let me drive you off. I’m deleting my long-winded posts that are so divisive, but I can’t do it at more than a handful every 24 hours. If you have clout with the management and can have that limit waived, my BS can be gone in a jiffy. The only thing I intend to keep is the liked posts, since someone obviously gained something. I’ll simply consider all else superflouos fluff of no value and am scurrying to take it down. In fairness to me, I obviously appreciated far more of the forum content, giving over 1,000 likes, and only getting half that in return.

I’m pleased to know that somebody gained some lev of insight. Frankly, I was surprised I got that many. Looks like the pleasure was all mine. So I can’t argue with you assesment of my contribution. However, endeavor to perservere. I’m cleaning up my portion of the mess as fast as I can.

I didn’t mean to poke fun at the OP. It’s just that I don’t take personal affront to comments directed at my avatar, since this is anonymous. My interest was to inspire paddlers with similar physical limitations to try another approach. Its hard to make a simple suggestion with replies that denigrate the message, but to your point, nobody has really expressed interest in my suggestions. Rest assured that I hear you and am fading out, so let your freinds know it will soon be safe.

My enjoyment of this forum has lessened over the years mostly because like the paddling world in general it is focused on kayaking. Certainly, there are canoe related posts, but like canoes on the water it seems to be fewer and fewer. So yes, I spend less time here because topics are dominated by paddling I don’t do. Nothing wrong with that, I just find it less interesting.

Of course there are other irritants; how many times and ways can you say “always wear your PFD”? But, that is easy enough to ignore, it really is about the type of paddling focus of the forum.

I used to visit quite a bit to the surf paddler and white water message boards at BoaterTalk because these were more aligned with my specific paddling enjoyment. But Boatertalk is gone (as is the ww focused New England Paddlers Board). Paddling.com is still here, as am I. I don’t post/respond as much as I used to. There are still some interesting topics as well as real friends that I met through here that keep me checking in.

-sing

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Same.

@davbart, i don’t canoe but always enjoyed your posts and found your content worth reading. Mostly because of your approach to explaing your point of view. We disagreed about the PFD issue, and you didn’t change my mind. However, you did convince me that you had the right to decide, and it was none of my business, especially since you follow the law. That messsge was crystsl clear to me. I still wear my PFD but accept the personal decision of others. Your influence has had a broad impact on me. Many might question that, but you influenced me. I value your judgement and know with cersainty that you are adept at self-preservation. You don’t need my endorsement.

It sounded funny to be referred to as one of the bro-mance brothers. I wear that with pride. I bought a Kalliste and sent it to my bro, because I value his judgement, and couldn’t think of anyone I trust more to provide feedback. He definitely didn’t tell me what I wanted to hear, yet his assessment enabled me to progress personally. I feel that I failed him, but know that if left alone, he will out perform me with the paddle. Respecting another person’s point of view as much as you value or respect your own is rare.

I don’t mind reducing my footprint on the forum. I’ll still read everything, I just won’t offer kayak related advice. I’ll keep what I learn to myself. I doubt that it will change anything.

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The reason (beyond paddling knowledge) these forums are “good” at the individual level is one can practice self discipline. If you don’t have enough, practice the next time you encounter rudeness, train your mind at the opportunity.

Take personal pride in observing yourself making incremental strides, like developing a weak and underused muscle.

:wink: think like a stoic
Practice, practice

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Why remove your posts? Leave them. no one else removes their posts people don’t agree with. Some will just make “airport announcements”.

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I think you post what your experiences have taught you. I see no reason to delete them. I didn’t read the thread that seems to be the issue. We don’t always agree, but you do add value to the site. I also understand why some are losing interest here.
There are specific forums to choose from. The Paddlers Place forum allows a broad range of topics. One can pick the category they like and filter out what they have no interest in. Like say the Advice or Fishing forums for example.

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This is the forum I chose, this is the site I enjoy. I read everything - every topic. There are people on this site who have become brothers to me. I’ve had contentious exchanges with many members, but never felt personally threatened and still don’t, yet theres a strong consensus explaining how it just isn’t fun anymore. That’s one way to win an arguement.

Regarding my posts. I’m not comfortable with my posts remaining in the custody of a group that doesn’t allow me to control or express opinions. It’s unnerving to have a conversation end with, “I’ve been paddling for 38 years . . .” , or ending with “you just don’t know how to size a paddle.” Where’s the science. I posted paddle.com sizing charts with I believe lengths up to 260 cm. Duh! I got zero response from doubter . . .

Regarding the political stuff, elected officials decide everything for us: what kind of straw I can use, dishwashers that don’t work, the price of electricity, and the car I drive, or depriving me of my constitutional rights. It might not be appropriate but I will nit have some coffe house lawyer belittle mevand stand by. I don’t want political discussions, but am unsettled when the instigator end it with “you just don’t believe in science” - nitbthe nes Saul Alinsky science. You can have your safe space. I’ll keep my loony ideas to myself. I will allow ones that received a favorable comment or a like for the benefit of a person who enjoyed the content of found it helpful.

@MohaveFlyer, you are a master of that, but I have no intention to justify my personsality traits. I accept any criticism anyone wants to levy at me. Based on career experience, I was training to be analytical and everything I documented had to be accurate. It doesn’t bother me that my claims or suggested techniques are challenged. Craig for example gets better results with a high angle technique and a feathered paddle, yet he has never argued his technique and I don’t recommend that he try mine suggestions - go figure. I repeatedly stated how I compensated for a bad shoulder. My goal from the first post was to recover the abilities I lost due to age and the shoulder damage. After four years on the forum, I reached that goal. The successful recovery and details of how I achieved it helped a few, but I’m not aware of anyone in my age group, or anyone with my physical condition benefitting from my suggestions.

There it is! I no longer have the stamina to finger stab a smart phone touch screen, and have that effort dinimished by some long term member who denigrates my data with old wives tales, perception and conjecture, yet, not surprisedly, not a stitch of data to back it up. NOT ONE STITCH OF DATA - that is very disturbing to me. They’re right and Im wrong, and I don’t see the point of presenting inadequate data.

That is a constant battle in life. My concern has less to do with kayaking than the periferal topics unrelated to kayaking. This is a group thinking forum, as I believe most forums are. I wanted a challenge and I got one here. I learned by breaking down the truisms and adapting, but I stopped learning. That’s the difference with the exchange I have with my bro-mance boyz, Craig and Steve. They still learn, explore and innovate. No group think there. I learn something everytime I talk to them, and I find that our kayaking results are similar. To interact on open forum, it feels I have to forget everything I learned. I guess I don’t know reality if it slapped me in the face.

I dont trust the data I posted without a overseer. Too easy for some silver tongue whipper snapper to negate it with a comment like, “everyone knows . . . !” I won’t post to another forum, because I doubt there will be any intellectual shift. I joined this forum because I felt it better accommodated new paddlers.

I have a new format, direct contact with the bro-manz boyz. Selling my schtick didn’t get results. @castoff, you’re an asset. There wasn’t any one post, it was just too many posts. I had already give up suggesting paddlers adapt what I had learned. The irony is that it’s one of the primary reasons I joined. Paddling is easy. Even kids do it. Paddling fast is easy, just do it faster. That serves 90% of kayakers, and they’re happy. Then I come along and suggest a technique. It’s their free time in a boat, not a class in calculus. I finally realized this isn’t the place for it, a miscalculation on my part. It is my data, and nobody else can explain the details. I couldn’t satisfactorily explain it to direct questions. That’s my fault. Msybe someday I can gain better communication skill, but not today. It serves no purpose cluttering posts with the same data if ot cant be comprehended. That’s not a problem for me, all I could donis give it a shot. My hope remains that I triggered a interest in some kayaker who who wants to look deeper into paddling efficiency. They have to fight their own struggle. That’s part of the discovery and pleasure of kayaking. I get that interacting with my bro-boyz.

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I am mostly isolated in my paddling, and because of where I live, as a fairly new kayaker it’s sad that I am by far the most experienced one around here. I cannot paddle with anyone around here that has lots more experience and when I started I found exactly zero others in about 9 months who ever owned a kayak. I was the very first one I could find in my area with the interest. . So learning for me is always a process of listening to others or watching vids, and trying what they show and speak about.

Like in all subjects in life, there are a very few people who are 100% correct, a very few that could not be more wrong, and a whole lot who have some knowledge and some truth but not all of it. (I am in that 3rd class)

But a motto I like to live by is “learn by the mistakes of others when you can, so you don’t have to make them all yourself” Side note: An old Army EOD (Enemy Ordinance Disposal) who lived 25 years doing that job told me that. He, above all others was proof such a policy is a good one to live by. And he did live.

So I consider what I am told and I often try those things, but I find varying degrees of value and merit in them.
All that said; I can say I have learned a lot from Jyak and also from Craig and from about 6 other members here. Not “learning” in that I can simply repeat what I was told, but because I tried what I was told and found it did indeed work very well. It’s funny that of those I have picked up valuable tips from, at lest 1 is a member who I’d bet I would not get along with fact to face, but the INFORMATION given about paddling was totally correct.

So we don’t need to even like people that can give us knowledge if we ourselves have wisdom… In fact, I think part of wisdom is being able to separate personality from information.

Those that lower themselves to attempts to give offence because they are not obeyed or worshiped as authorities simply show they have no wisdom. They can have a lot of knowledge and if we all take that knowledge and use it to help ourselves and others such gleaning of that knowledge is quite beneficial. The lack of wisdom shown by those trying to degrade and insult only demonstrated the lack of wisdom even when they do have some knowledge. So I’d advise all readers to learn the difference between good knowledge and very detrimental lack of wisdom.

In that way you can easily eat the meat and spit out the bones. But never expect wisdom from a fool even when that fool has some useful knowledge. Just take the knowledge and walk away.

Jyak, I am not sure it is helpful to delete all the other posts, but I understand an underlying reason for doing it, and as they are your own posts, I’d not tell you not to. But know this; I for one am very glad to have had your help and advice. Not everything you told me worked as well for me as it did for you in the last 4 years, but ALL of it did help me to some extent. NOTHING you ever told me, in print of on the phone, was ever totally wrong and a lot was totally right. I did learn a lot, and for that I think you. In your attempt to smooth things over I see a wisdom that few others show because it takes a wise man to admit wrong doing, more in wanting to not offend then in subject matter. That’s part of integrity and integrity is something I do not expect to ever see from a few others on this forum and also on a few others I have visited at other times and from other places. “I was wrong in the information I said” [factually incorrect] is one thing. “I was wrong because of how I said it” [ethically wrong] is far more, and takes real integrity to admit and try to correct. I commend you!!! Kids, pay attention! That’s what integrity looks like.

I also thank others here too, including those that seem to want to play the 3rd grade hate filled brat, not because they showed any wisdom but because even in their stooping to 3rd grade brat levels — they still helped me with some details in my quest to learn to use a kayak and a paddle in better ways. Their evil cores would be upset if they knew that despite their hate they still helped me.
That little fact is humorous in and of itself.

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@szihn, i mean sincerely that your experimentation and comparison between the Kallliste, Eagle and the Greenland astounded me. I believe I know the source of your issues with the Kalliste, but that is for you to determine, and I have no doubt you will. Early on I figured you had no clue about how fast you were already paddling. You described how similar our strokes were, right down to the little flourish at the catch that I haven’t mention in any posted info. You confirmed my suspicions with the time/distance trips. You mention how little experience you have, but your technique has evolved over four years to exceed what I’ve gained in 15 years. I truly cant think of much that I helped, other than confirming what you already believed to be true. You also have the advantage of running your technical questions past Paulo. I can’t imagine the number of boats you’ve tested orvthe number of paddles you’ve used. It’s unfortunate that you don’t have a GPS or at lesst a smart phone app to document your testing

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If I don’t like a post I need not read it. If I don’t agree I can discuss it or shake my head and scroll onwards.

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