I want Advice on Choosing the Right Kayak for Long Distance Touring

Advice
#1

Hello everyone,

I want some advice on selecting a kayak for long distance touring & would greatly appreciate your insights; I am new to kayaking but have done a few short trips and am now interested in investing in a kayak that will be suitable for extended journeys, perhaps over several days or even a week.

I have heard that longer kayaks are better for tracking and speed but I am also concerned about stability. How important is stability for long distance trips & are there specific designs or lengths that strike a good balance?

Which kayak models are ideal for transporting supplies and equipment? ?

What features should I look for in terms of seating, legroom & overall ergonomics?

Are there materials or brands that you would recommend for their reliability and ease of upkeep? :thinking:

Also i have read this resorse/artical; https://forums.paddling.com/t/seeking-kayak-purchase-advicelearn-servicenow but have not found any solution still need your advice. if you have any advice please share with me

My last question is What is a reasonable price range for a quality touring kayak?

Thank you

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#2

Just 2 weeks ago I did a week long trip. My kayak of choice was my Chatham17, but here in Wyoming there are lakes that are full of the “blue/green agile” which plugs filters fast and can’t be purified by boiling, so taking a week’s worth of drinking water was needed. Because of that fact in those cases I often revert to simply taking canned food because dehydrated food would need to be hydrated and so the water would have to be carried to do that. In other words, if you are not in a place to get water for drinking or food prep, carrying bulk and weight become more important. Those that do back-packing in deserts know all about this and though it’s rare in kayaking, it does present itself at time. Anyway I tried to load 7 days worth of food, water and all my gear and it would not fit. So I unloaded the Chatham and placed it all in my Eddyline Fathom. It has higher decks and took all of the gear, food and water with room enough to take a little more. My Chatham is 17’ 3" long and the Fathom is 16.5 feet long. So length is not always linked to volume.
That’s all to illustrate an overview. The first question I’d ask is where you will go? Next would be about your size. I am short at 5’ 6" but have thick thighs. I have a 34" waist and I fit the Chatham17 well, but do wish the thigh braces were “deeper” side to side because they don’t hold me as well as I’d like, coming about 1/2 way around my thighs instead of coming to the 11:00 or 1:00 position around them. And the Chatham has no room left for me to make a masik that’s more then about 3/4" thick. The fathom has a lot of room for me and I use a masik to brace myself in, which is cut out for my thighs but is still a bit more then 1" thick at the two radiuses and 2" thick at the center.
A longer narrower kayak does track better in most cases, but not all. It’s a rule of thumb, but not “thus saith the Lord”. Touring kayaks need to be large enough on the inside for the gear you need and the food, but in MOST places kayakers can get water to drink and use to cook, so in most cases you can use dehydrated food which vastly decreases the weight and bulk of what you need to go out for a week or even longer.

Roto-Molded kayaks are less ridged then Thermo-formed and those are less ridged then Fiberglass. Fiberglass is slightly less ridged then carbon fiber. As the material gets stronger the trend is to target lighter weights, which is the main reason most people want a stronger material. Only in some custom builds are Glass and Carbon kayaks made to weigh as much as a ro0to-molded kayak and these are ONLY done for super strong builds A 60 pound Roto-Molded kayak is very very hard to damage, but if you do punch a hole in it the only way to fix it good as new is to plastic weld it. I have done this 4 times and in all 4 cases the weld was as good or maybe even better then it was when in left the factory, but in 4 of the 4 cases the repair was very obvious and ugly. No so on Fiberglass or carbon. Both of those can be repaired to be good as new and look good as new, but also both are more likely to need such repairs because carbon is a bit more prone to damage then glass and glass is more prone to damage then Thermo-formed which is more prone to damage then rotomolded. A few custom builders have offered super strong Glass or Carbon lay-ups by simply using enough layers to make the extra strength of the fiberglass or carbon thicker. This does indeed make them very strong, but the final product if more expensive by far than roto-molded kayaks and there is debate as to any real value of a 60 pound Glass kayak over a 60 pound roto-molded kayak. I do know that the roto-molded is less stiff, but having use them a lot I can’t say I see the advantage in the real world. So disagree. A lighter kayak is more nimble, and quicker to accelerate and to stop, but I am unsure if they are enough quicker to justify the pricing (of carbon mostly) over the better roto-molded kayaks. Cost can be and is often 250%to 300% more.

So-------- reasonable price range:
That’s the one thing no one can really tell you because you are the one doing the reasoning. To me, what determines what I’d pay for a kayak is “everything else”, meaning the cost of living. I have to have money left over after I satisfy all my obligations. If it’s there I’ll look at it and decide if I want to invest it in a kayak, and if I do how much of the savings would I be willing to part with?
So if someone makes $125,000 to $160,000 a year, reasoning to themselves about a $5000 to $6000 kayak is not so hard as someone that earns $40,000 a year. Those that earn over 1M a year can just buy what they want to, and if they want to try something else the just buy that kayak too and sell the other one. It’s easy for them.
For me, cost has been important. So I have not bought new kayaks. I buy used. Like cars, kayak drop in value after a few years of age and use, and because of that you can try 2 or 3 kayaks used for the price of 1 new one. (in most places anyway)
New kayaks are often priced in the $2400-$2600 range for Rotomolded. $3000 to $3200 for Thermo-Formed, $4500 to $5000 for Fiberglass and $5500-$6200 for Carbon. Used is going to be about 1/2 to 1/3 of new pricing depending on condition and location. Here in Wyoming I am a LONG way from any ocean and so kayaks are not all that common on the used market, but also not as much in demand so I have bought many for very good prices just because demand is low as compared to any state close to an ocean. I bought an 18 foot 9" Glass P&H 3 years ago for $300 which sold new 20 years ago for $3500. Over 90% less then new price.
But the only down-side to the used market is a lack of choices. In used kayaks you can have what’s available, but not usually the kayak of your dreams.

As a closing note: When I 1st got into kayaking my Sister (who has been doing it for several years before me) wants me to go with her and her friends for 3 week trips on Alaska’s coast. I was concerned that I would be a Burdon and not be able to hold my own and keep up. But her instructor (and good friend to her) who organized those trips came by here on his way to the Great lakes 2 years ago and we got to meet. He and I did about 3 hours on the water and in the first 20 minutes he told me that I had no worries because i was faster with a loaded kayak then most of his friends he took out now. I do not own a GPS and so I was (and still am) guessing at my speeds, but even on the trip 2 weeks ago I had the kayak loaded to it’s max, and was still out front having to slow down and wait for my friends. No bragging is intended here, but just to state the facts that taking the time to learn how to paddle well and using the torso to do 95% of the work makes for good form, and going for 8-14 hours a day, good form is vital. On trips you do not want to wear out on day 2 or day 3 and know you now have to go that much more to even get back. I can see the point that lighter would be easier to move for many days on end.

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#3

You are likely describing a 15-17’ sea kayak with fore and aft, bulkheaded, waterproof hatches. Test paddle a few first to make sure you are OK with the stability. Prices can be all over the map depending upon model, plastic vs. composite and new vs. used. There is never really “one best” kayak for any particular application and each individual will probably have their own personal favorite. Fit and comfort are highly important if you are thinking all day or multi day trips.

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#4

Welcome! You’re new to kayaking and from your picture I am guessing you are a female and not super-large. if that’s right will need a low volume touring kayak.

However, what I’d really advise now is that you find yourself a place to take sea kayaking lessons, or an outfit that can take you out on your first longer paddle. Taking lessons or going with a tour can teach you a lot of valuable information about what kind of kayak you want, what you like, and get closer to determining what your true needs will be.

I got the same advice when I first posted on here years ago, and to be honest, I did not take it. I waited a few years before taking lessons. But now from a vantage point of much more experience, I wish I would have taken lessons right away. It would have saved me a couple of years of not knowing what I was doing, buying kayaks, and then having to resell them. But, that method works too! It’s just a little slower. If you use that method, I’d advise buying used, so that you can resell for close to what you paid or the same, since the great likelihood is that any kayak you buy now, as a beginner, will not be the one you end up with. Unless you decide you don’t like kayaking that much after all…:smiley:

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#5

Also, it’s important to understand that a kayak must fit the individual paddler, so what’s right for one person will not be right for the next person. People often compare it to buying shoes. Also, what kayak is good for you will depend largely on what you want to do with it. Some people want to go fast and straight, and other people want something that will handle waves well in the ocean and be easily maneuverable. That’s why I’m advising that you gain some more experience and take some lessons before deciding.

#6

One way some of us old timers have helped others in your situation is if we know where they are located and can look at the used boat listings available in your area and suggest ones that might be suitable.

Hull choice will depend on whether your distance travels will be on flatwater rivers or in the coastal seas or large windy lakes. Stability in waves is better with a vee shaped rather than flat hull.

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#7

In their other thread they said 6’ 200lb? Wouldn’t guess that from the photo used.

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#8

Yes, I guess it’s always a mistake these days to infer anything from the photos people use for their profile pictures. Though mine is 100% accurate :joy:

#9

For extended trips you want the boat to be comfortable for you to sit in as you will be in it all day, and you want storage space. I’ve done 10-day trips in a 14 footer but packing and unpacking was onerous.

If you are talking sea kayak then you can usually find out what the forward and rear volumes are and compare models that way. I have no problem packing a week’s worth of gear into my Epic 18X. Regarding how narrow the hull is, don’t be afraid to get something that feels a little too tippy when you test drive it. You will get comfortable with tippiness quickly, but you will paddle it with less effort forever.

If you have to do portages then consider a solo canoe over a kayak. They hold more gear, weigh and cost about the same, and are a lot easier to put in, take out, and portage because your gear will already be in packs. And you can take a cooler. I’ve seen a lot of people lately paddling solos with a double-bladed kayak paddle and the combination seems ideal for places like Boundary Waters.

#10

Mine too (it’s a road sign) :grin:

#11

I am very, very happy with the Dagger Charleston 15 I bought used last year off Craigslist for $300. I think it would suit your purpose based on the limited description you gave
–Rotomolded polyethylene - very durable. It’s a little heavier than other materials, but I crash over obstacles fearlessly
–plenty of rocker, so I can maneuver well in tight areas, but a drop down skeg so I can also go straight very well
–basically a recreational kayak and cockpit, so it’s stable and has a large cockpit. At 6’2" (and male) I can lift my knees, as Kevburg recommends (after I unscrewed and removed the plastic keyhole things)
–hatches with storage fore and aft
–it swallows up my camping gear admirably with only my portage wheel on the deck (and a spare paddle on the front deck)
–it cruises nicely in large lakes, and I paddled it 5 days down the Huron River with the longest day 27 miles
–Dagger also made it in a 14’ model I’ve seen listed, and they’ve made several very similar models in various lengths which appear to have the same cockpit design and drop down skegs, and they still do if you are looking for new

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#12

Check out what I wrote about the Rockpool Tarantella. It may be a good fit. If not, and you want to grow into the sport more slowly, I would say an 16 to 18 foot touring kayak that has rubber hatches, not fiberglass lids over neoprene, for waterproofness. A rear back deck and seat back that is very low, one in which your shoulder blades and the back of your head can touch the back deck when you lean all the way back. This will help you learn to roll. I suggest a rudder with SmartTrack pedals, but a skeg is also fine, take lessons in how rudders and skegs work. Get a kayak with a very good rim around you so your spray skirt does not inadvertently pop off, and be able to reach the front so you can pull the skirt off when you tip and want to go swimming instead of kayaking. Plastic boats can take a lot of abuse, rocks, barnacles, etc. and are cheaper. Good luck!

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#13

I’ll tackle the price question, as others are addressing boat features. Price is very region-dependent. Material, age, and condition are the biggest factors in the used market. Let’s assume a 15-18’ kayak with at least (2) watertight hatches and (2) bulkheads. I prefer boats with (3) of each, because I find a day hatch located immediately behind the cockpit to be a requirement. The small ‘cockpit’ or ‘whiskey’ hatches in front of the cockpit are a personal choice (I don’t care either way). These prices should get you a good boat in the US, and are a pretty broad generalization since we there are a lot of unknows.

Single-layer poly boats: $400-$800
3-layer poly boats: $700-$1100
Fiberglass (age-dependent): $600-$1500
Kevlar/Carbon/Etc.: $800-$3500

#14

Hi- I have a P&H Scorpio sa kayak with very light use. Its a great boat for touring and camping. Happy to sell it to you at a great price.

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#15

Sea kayak 15’ minimum, 50 lb. or less even up to near 18 feet long. Stability 23-24" wide is very stable. Fiberglass hatches with neoprene seals are great on all seven of my Current Design hulls.

If you want to buy used you can get really nice kayaks 700-1500 USD. I never paid more than 900 for any of my kayaks except one 2 years old it was 1800 14 years ago. Total value of all the stuff it came with was 4200. It was literally like new.

Some were a 3-4 hour drive each way to get around NYC Metro area.

Looking at used post pictures here for people to look at.

Looking for new see what’s in your area for dealers and brands.

#16

@inaraghj - you got a ton of responses here so I’ll be brief. :slight_smile:

Stability shouldn’t be a concern for you. Longer, narrower kayaks generally will feel “tippier” than shorter, wider boats…but you’ll quickly get used to that tippiness (and no touring kayak is so tippy that you can’t stay upright in it). And within the “longer, narrower” category of boats, some are tippier than others, depending on the shape of the hull.

My other suggestion is (assuming you have no chronic lower back issues) avoid the temptation to get a kayak with a tall-backed seat. These look luxurious and comfortable for leaning back and lounging in the boat…but for touring, they just get in the way (and can even chafe or blister your back). Instead, you want a low backband. This is more comfortable and allows you more freedom of motion (both leaning forward and rearward and also rotating your torso, which you want to do when paddling).

Also, if you ever want to learn to roll, the high-backed seats will make that difficult too.

If you find the perfect boat in every way but it has a high-backed seat, you can usually remove the seatback and replace it with an aftermarket backband.

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#17

Great boat!

#18

I will spare you advice about taking lessons etc. since that’s not what you’re asking.

Speed and stability:

You are wise to consider speed. Not (I hope) out of concern for keeping up with the group; if your group doesn’t adjust its pace and trip plans to the speed of its slowest paddlers, consider going with a different group. But faster does mean less effort to cover distance, which is critical.

Speed depends on the length of the waterline, NOT the overall length of the boat. (A 17’ boat with a lot of rocker may have only a 15’ waterline.)

How the boat is loaded also changes the waterline AND the overall effective hull shape (more gear = boat rides lower), and therefore can also potentially affect the speed, stability and/or tracking. A boat that is designed to be loaded may actually paddle faster than when it is unloaded. So test drive a loaded boat if you can.

Stability per se doesn’t seem more of an issue for a longer trip (unless it negatively affects your comfort); but obviously looms much larger if you are paddling on open water.

Initial stability (“tippiness” in flat water/resistance to putting it on edge) vs. secondary stability (resistance to going from on edge to upside down) are two separate considerations. Counterintuitively, a boat will behave better in wavey/choppy water if it has LOWER initial stability because it won’t be tipped as much by the waves (see KayakHipster’s excellent YT video on boat stability). But low initial and high secondary stability are not mutually exclusive. Low initial + high secondary = the ideal combination for confidence in choppy water.

I paddle an 18’ P&H Cetus MV (I’m 6’, 190 lb) which I find an excellent rough water boat, and with careful planning was able to do an 8 day trip in remote coastal Maine where we had to carry drinking water. On the roughest day, with 2 1/2’ broadside breaking waves, I was having fun where others may have been nervous.

Do consider weight though, if you will be dragging your laden boat up and down the beach every day. Very broadly speaking, Brit boats (like P&H) tend to have heavier lay-ups for the same material.

Tracking

Yes, long, straight, and narrow will track better (and paddle faster) than short, rockered and wide, but there are always tradeoffs, especially maneuvarability and capacity. Not to dive into the debate about skegs vs. rudders, either will help any boat track better if used correctly. I find that a rudder provides greater support for tracking. One downside of a rudder is it does create some drag, especially when deployed at an extreme angle to compensate for strong broadside winds.

Carrying capacity

Obviously, a bigger boat (longer, wider, higher deck) will give you more room, but has trade-offs. If you’ve ever done any backpacking, you could probably make just about any touring kayak of 16’ or more do - but the nice thing about kayak tripping is the luxury to carry more. Another consideration about skeg vs. rudder is that the skeg well takes up room inside your rear hatch, not an issue with a rudder. But because a rudder lies on top of the deck, while it improves tracking when deployed, in wind it can negatively impact tracking when it’s up.

Seating & Ergonomics

Very personal. One thing I love about P&H is they use a fully molded seat that I find tips my pelvis back and helps maintain good posture. I have found this much more helpful than padding or a high seat back (the latter actually discourages a good, active paddling posture).

Legroom should be sufficient to allow you to maintain a relaxed froggy position while still in loose contact with your foot pegs/rudder pedals and thigh braces, but still allow you to actively engage both of these without having to reach. Also make sure the cockpit length is long enough that you can wet exit/re-enter the boat easily.

As you can see from all these posts, there is a LOT to consider. Whether you decide to buy, rent, beg, borrow or steal :slight_smile: a boat for your trip, I strongly recommend that you borrow or rent as many different boats as you can to try them out on longer days/weekend trips first.

Good luck, and post some pictures!

#19

@Shadepine all good points. Except I disagree about seat backs. I am (sadly) something of an expert in back problems. I actually find that a tall seatback is also bad for back problems – at least, I have never seen one that provides enough forward support to maintain good posture, and it also depends on how the seat pan is angled. And a backband really requires a strongly engaged core, which can get tiring on a long paddle. I discovered that P&H’s fully molded seat-seat back tips my pelvis to help support good posture. But maybe a properly adjusted seat pan would accomplish the same thing…

#20

If you’re anywhere near Northern Michigan, I have a lovely Kevlar CD Prana LV for sale. Weighs 47# and has a comfortable seat with IR Reggie backband. Fast and responsive.

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