Retire? Oh, sort of a pit stop for new rubber along the circum-solar racewy?
There but for the grace of God,
(or is it even chances not afflicting the odd?)
caution to the wind, burning holes in my pocket,
three-penny opera I’m learning filling criminal docket.
I strode across the land and I paddled over water.
Someday the devil in his dice game is gonna crap-out this ole farter.
I have a question for the people here.
When you see someone say in a rec kayak about to push the limits of their boat into waters that are clearly questionable ether to cold or to rough and maybe they are not wearing PFD or it is not adequate, but they are clearly not in any emanate danger yet.
Do you speak up? Question them? Advise them?
What is your normal approach?
At best you get the ‘mind your own business’ look.
If I read about them in the morning paper my conscience is clear. See something suggest something. Kids involved if it takes more than a suggestion they’ll get that too.
Usually they won’t be amenable to advice but it you say kindly in passing that that is a good pond boat for poking in little calm areas its a nugget of education. People don’t want unsolicited advice if they don’t know you. I have had good luck going out with new kayakers and becoming their friend on shore first.
It depends. Complete strangers, honestly it is almost impossible to have a useful conversation once they are in launch mode. I have had some success by initiating a conversation while they are still trying to get their gear together on shore. Not infrequent to find that the ones who are having the most problem doing this are also the newest paddlers, and plopping down a fully rigged sea kayak then adding spare paddles etc to it often gets their interest.
As kayamedic says, sometimes they don’t know the places to paddle yet and may be glad to hear of somewhere that may be less daunting.
What I have cautioned people about regardless of dirty looks is when they land on an island in Maine when it is supposed to be off limits because of bird season, or when they come close enough to seals to push them into the water when there are still very little ones out. It isn’t hard to tell, the pups are bright white at first and easier to spot from a distance than the adults that look like the rocks.
The last time I did that, I also got to suggest that their boats and the open channel they had just crossed were not a perfect match. I got better response on the birds than I did that though.
This is kind of my opinion also. Around here 90% of the people I see out I would have some degree of concern about to some degree, and of that 90%, 99% are not going to have any catastrophic problems and may just learn from their bad experience.
On the other hand it is maybe .0001% are going to get into a serious problem and I would hate be the person that saw it and didn’t say something, and I would likely be that person because otherwise I’m the old guy not minding his own business and talking to almost everyone I encounter.
Like you if I make a friend on or off shore or someone approaches me for help I will do my best.
I see people struggling trying to strap a boat on the rack and have asked do you need a hand. Most of the time I get no I’ve got it when they clearly don’t.
It is a tough call and I’m an open person always striking up conversations with people, but she is more its not your job to instruct people and she would rather I didn’t.
I am fairly sure doing so will get you classified as a “snob” kayaker. Yes, I have warned people in the past of potentially dangerous conditions. Often getting the look. Still we do have a responsibility to at least try. Something like paddling with the paddle upside down I don’t bother with anymore unless it’s family or friends.
I agree if I see someone disturbing nature or going in the direction that is off limits I would say something also.
And if you try to educate someone there, you’ll get nowhere but strange looks of people thinking you’re some rude-know it all that butts into other people’s conversations.
Sometimes I go with other people and they all have rec kayaks, so I use my pack canoe (hope that’s what it’s called). It’s boring to me but sometimes ya gotta do the socializing thing if they’re friends/family. One of the bennies they get is if it’s a river and we hear rapids, I go first and scout it out for them. For me, it’s the equivalent of going to your kid’s baseball practice–boring but just something ya do.
I’m a noob and see this from the noob point and agree that those nut-shells shouldn’t go on any real water, PFD should be worn etc.
But I also asked on this forum for advice for my first boat. Among much good advice, there were some people insisting I should just buy “the first one I see and paddle”. This seems to be the worst advice ever, since that is what the people do that end up with the $200 Dick’s boats. So don’t blame the noobs right away, they may have asked for advice, but got bad advice.
I think @Dago makes a good point, although I see it quite a bit different. I have a canoe and she a rec kayak and I have nothing against an exciting white water adventure even though it has been 40 years from my last one. As a young guy I loved rafting the rivers in SW Pa and WV.
Now we enjoy immensely those slow moving river trips thru nature or working our way around an inland lake stopping and exploring each cove.
We each are fulfilling much different desires and doing it in different boats. 
@LurkingPedal
I believe I may be one of the people that gave you awful advice. But to be fair if memory recalls you were looking for something to get into kayaking on slow flat lakes. You were eager to get going and nothing was available new without long waits and the used market was iffy and you had no way of transporting yet and what you were finding were hours away.
I mentioned that we did similar boating and I had just bought on line thru Dick’s a 10’ Old Town rec kayak and it was delivered to my door. It was completely suitable for the type of use you had described. I even suggested that it had stern flotation and I had added bow flotation and IMO it ended up being a safe fun boat that tracked well had good beginners stability and wasn’t going to win a lot of races. It wasn’t a $200 boat more like $550 and I wasn’t trying to send you down the wrong path.
What you ended up buying the $360 inflatable IMO won’t be as much fun on a open lake, but that is only my opinion.
Again for me a quality rec kayak is not a lot different than a canoe or a pack canoe in terms of safety and usage. Each boat has a place.
That’s not prejudice, String. That is the eyes and voice of experience.
Some people refuse to learn from any method other than the school of hard knocks—which they might not survive.
Yet others get whacked by the same school but don’t absorb the lesson. Someone who went on a trip unprepared for the venue and conditions told me about having to be rescued by fishermen in AK. His summation of the episode: “That was really COOL of them to rescue us!” Not one word, ever, then or in the following years, about Maybe I should learn more about what it takes to be competent for these trips.
Never. One. Iota. Of concern that other people’s safety might be compromised rescuing those who don’t even try to take responsibility for themselves.
I won’t knowingly paddle with anyone whose standard attitude is “Other people will save me, so why should I bother with lessons or practice?” The attitude comes through in other activities and venues, so there are often clues about it. Steer clear of those people. Trying to get them to change doesn’t work.
Horses for courses. And sometimes horses’ asses paddling them.
I stay out of it unless the person is obviously brand new, such as they say, “We just got these and are on our first paddle ever!” or they actually ask for advice.
But it depends on the venue, the time of year, the weather forecast, the presence or absence of many other boaters close by or not, etc. If it’s the dog days of summer with with warm water at a small lake and accessible beach near, they mainly need to stay very close to shore all the time. If it’s spring or late fall or the water is under 70 degrees or the venue has currents or other potential hazards, that’s a whole different set of less-forgiving conditions.
Similarly, using junk kayaks in the first venue might result in nothing worse than a swim to land and needing someone to tow the flooded thing back. In the second venue…lots of worse scenarios could play out.
All this presumes that the people CAN swim and tread water in the first place. The PFD adds safety but it won’t propel them back to land.
Another anecdote from two years ago: I was practicing rolling my WW kayak at a small reservoir. Hot weather, warm water. To avoid the clusterfk of floatyblowup junkies that often literally occupied the old ramp and immediate area near it, l went to the opposite shore. I heard plenty of the usual mommy-brigade and kiddie noise, and then out of the kid sounds a man began screaming, “Help! Help!” I was too far to see what was going on and assumed the two figures that appeared to have taken truck tubes on the water were drunk or high, or both.
A little later I heard sirens approaching. Emergency vehicles and staff arrived. Later still, a man who had been fishing in that area asked me, “Did you hear that guy yelling?” I said I had but thought it was some drunk crying wolf (which I have seen before at a different venue). The fisherman said the two guys were, in fact, high on something. One of the tubes, which he described as being “almost flat before they even took it in the water” went even flatter, causing the druggie to panic. Druggie could not swim. The fisherman had been trained as a lifeguard in a previous life, so he hauled the druggie idiot to shore. He said both guys practically ran to their car and peeled out of there, which is why he thought they must’ve had drugs in their bodies. The ambulance got there fast but the guys had scrammed already.
I don’t care if a drunk or druggie dies from his own stupidity. There. I said it.
I will occasionally offer unsolicited advice, depending on the circumstances. Most commonly with people on SUPs near Annapolis without a PFD. The USCG, DNR, marine police, and others are death on that and the ticket is $150 for no PFD and another $150 for no whistle. Most of these people honestly didn’t know and generally thank me and turn back to get one or get off the water. Why the people that sold them the SUP didn’t tell them and sell them what is required is beyond me.
If I come across a solo paddler in open water with no PFD on and no sign of a pump or paddlefloat, I’ll generally strike up a conversation with them and casually ask if they ever considered how they would get back in their boat if they capsized. A surprising number of people had never considered this or assumed that they could just climb back in.
If I see people going out totally unprepared for cold water, I’ll mention the dangers of cold water. The response is invariably, “I don’t plan on going over” To that I just reply, “No one ever does”, and walk away. Hopefully, a few people might think on this later.
The final thing is that I always carry a VHF with weather alert. If I get a warning of an imminent severe storm I’ll mention it to people I pass on the way in. Pop up thunderstorms are common in the Chesapeake in summer.
I didn’t mean to call anyone out, and don’t remember who said what. And honestly, I just assumed people got fed up with me changing my mind :-). Obviously it is my responsibility to digest all advice and decide.
Every article or YT video I saw that compared reviewed those cheap kayaks stated to only use them as far as one is able to swim back to shore with the kayak in tow. Obviously people will use them far outside that distance since one doesn’t think it sinks, and never knows how far they can swim while rescuing a boat. I also imagine an accident will happen near a shore not suitable to get on land.
What I ended up with (Sea Eagle 370) may not be the fastest boat, but I hope it is of enough quality to not lose flotation in all chamber and at least gives me a floating platform if a leak develops. Certainly better than a folding boat from a safety point.
Noob story: Before I discovered this forum we rented a Air B’nB in Door County on the Lake Michigan side. It came with two 9’ kayaks (no bulkheads). it came with PFD. My plan was to sail around Cana island. Well, the first day it was choppy, but not unusual for an open lake Michigan. It took me quite some strokes to get away from the shore where the waves spilled over the boat and filled the cockpit. I then had to paddle a few hundred yards out where the waves were lower and i felt confident to make a quick 180° turn before the next wave. i then paddled straight back, not realizing the wind drifted me off and I ended up at the wrong house. I had to find out where our house was and drag the kayak back. Water also was on the colder side. for my next trip, I dragged the second kayak to the beach as a marker so I at least could see where to go back and it went fine. I never made my trip around Cana Island…
Obviously it made me interested in kayaks, but I also realized right away those aren’t the proper boats. but 99% of the kayaks you see on cars are exactly like those kayaks. In addition attached to the roof in scary ways. So for a noob like me, a Dick’s kayak looks like a kayak everyone else has. Those kayaks also are what the rental places have here. So a noob will never really see a “real” kayak unless they actively research.
I’m in no position to offer advice. But my personal MINIMUM requirement for a beginner hard shell kayak for calm waters would be 2 bulkheads and at least 12’ long.
There should be some consumer protection to require the 2 bulkheads or to label the toy as such. Like the “mountain bikes” Walmart sells that come with huge stickers saying they are for paved paths only. Most people don’t understand hypothermia and there is an appropriate “you think you can swim” thread around here that shows the importance of PFD, and a floatable boat.
I wonder how many read the owners manual that comes with each rec boat. SunDolphin does warn: “Your kayak is only designed for use in sheltered waters, lakes and slow moving streams.”
Its manual is filled with references about the importance of wearing a PFD and even suggests taking a lesson from a certified instructor.
Yea SunDolphin! Reading comprehension is too often non-existent these days when “let’s have fun” is involved for people who do not know to respect the water.
I just really like to disarmingly tell people their paddle is upside down…enough said about their experience