I'm prejudiced. Apparently not alone

Ahhh, the gravitas of that rainbow…

“However… accept this financial stipulation – ah – stipend in behalf of, uh, Richard Python for the great contribution and to quote from some of the missiles which he has contributed…Today we must all be aware that protocol takes precedence over procedure. Howewer you say – WHAT THE – what does this mean… in relation to the tabulation whereby we must once again realize that the great fiction story is now being rehearsed before our very eyes, in the Nixon administration… indicating that only an American writer can receive…the award for fction, unlike Solzinitski whose fiction doesn’t hold water. Comrades – friends, we are gathered here not only to accept in behalf of one recluse – one who has found that the world in itself which seems to be a time not of the toad – to quote even Studs TurKAL. And many people ask “Who are Studs TurKAL?” It’s not “Who are Studs TurKAL?” it’s “Who am Studs TurKAL?” This in itself as an edifice of the great glory that has gone beyond, and the intuitive feeling of the American people, based on the assumption that the intelligence not only as Mencken once said, “He who underestimates the American pubic – public, will not go broke.” This is merely a small indication of this vast throng gathered here to once again behold and to perceive that which has gone behind and to that which might go forward into the future…we’ve got to hurdle these obstacles. This is the main deterrent upon which we have gathered our strength and all the others who say, “What the hell did that get?” – We don’t know. We’ve got to peforce withold the loving boy… And as Miller once said in one of his great novels- what did he … that language is only necessary when communication is endangered. And you sit there bewildered, and Pinter who went further said “It is not the lack of communication but fear of communication.” That’s what the Goddamn thing is it’s we fear – communication. Oh – fortunately the prize has only been given to authors – unlike the Academy Award which is given to a female and a male, indicating the derision of the human specie – God damn it! But we have no paranoia, and Mr. Pynchon has attained, and has created for himself serenity, and it is only the insanity that has kept him alive in his paranoia. We speak of the organ…of the orgasm…Who the hell wrote this? And the jury has determined to divide the prize between two writers – to Thomas Pynchon for his GRAVITY’S RAINBOW. Now GRAVITY’S RAINBOW is a token of this man’s genius…he told me so himself…that he could…in other words, have been more specific, but rather than to allude the mundane, he has come to the conclusion that brevity is the importance of our shallow existence. God damn. Ladies and Gentlemen. To the distinguished panel on the, on the dais and to the other winners, for poetry and religion and science. The time will come when religion will outlive its usefulness. Marx, Groucho Marx, once said that religion is the opiate of the people. I say that when religion outlives its usefulness, then opium…will be the opiate…Ahh that’s not a bad idea… All right…However, I want to thank Mr. Guinzburg, Tom Guinzburg of the Viking Press, who has made it possible for you people to be here this evening to enjoy the Friction Citation – the Fiction Citation. GRAVITY’S RAINBOW – a small contribution to a certain degree, since there are over three and a half billion people in the world today. 218 of them … million live in the United States which is a very, very small amount compared to those that are dying elsewhere…Well, I say that you will be on the road to new horizons, for we who live in a society where sex is a commodity and a politician can become a TV personality, it’s not easy to conform if you have any morality…I, I, I said that myself many years ago…But I do want to thank the bureau…I mean the committee, the organization for the $10,000 they’ve given out…tonight they made over $400,000 and I think that I have another appointment. I would like to stay here, but for the sake of brevity I, I must leave. I do want to thank you, I want to thank Mr. TurKAL. I want to thank Mr. Knopf who just ran through the auditorium* and I want to thank Breshnev, Kissinger – acting President of the United States – and also want to thank Truman Capote and thank you.”

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There is really no such thing as a “bad boat” There are just cases of people attempting to use a particular boat in a way that it was not designed for and/or they do not have the skills and equipment for. If a person can use a boat in a safe manner and enjoy themselves, then it is the perfect boat for them.

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A hundred posts to say the same thing!

For safety the 3 key items need to compatible and appropriately supporting:
1 the person - knowledge, skills and abilities
2 the boat and
3 the conditions - water, weather,etc

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depends on what the owner wants, some that are just starting out and don’t want to spend money on something they won’t use. White water kayaks are even shorter, they are for rapids. Some people like to just chill on water. Would you get a 14’ or more for simple runs?

Yes I need to get there fast and safe. Many want to go with the flow and not really travel far just be on the water that’s fine.

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My brother and I built a raft out of a pallet and sticks. That was a BAD boat. It fell apart in the lake. We were both young and didn’t have a clue about a PFD but we had enough sense to stay close to shore.
It was fun!

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Yeah me too

The only time I wanted a 9” foot boat was when I was in the thick of a bald cypress swamp, wiggling in between trees. Most of the time I think 12” boats are too short.

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I disagree w/the first and agree with the last. I have a pack canoe and sometimes go alongside people in rec kayaks and because of the different boat geometry, they usually get water in the boat where I don’t. I view kayaks as 'wave piercers" and a canoe as something that rides on top of the wave. I’ve never been in a rec kayak, but my guess is I can lean if need be and they can’t.

So I guess this then begs the question: “Should a noob buy a pack canoe or a rec kayak?”

I really doubt that. People who are inclined to become serious are also inclined to do research beforehand.

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I have had both and prefer SOT kayaks but that’s just me. I had a PBW Rapidfire and it was a great boat, just not for me.
People who buy kayaks either know or learn quickly that kayaking is a wet sport.

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Great wisdom string! “kayaking is a wet sport” Anyone considering paddling any kayak or canoe needs to learn & accept his wisdom.

It is amazing when I am called to teach beginner kayak lessons in winter (50-54F water) and after I ask what the prospective paddler will wear to protect them from the cold water, there answer is almost always, “I don’t plan on getting wet.”

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A pack canoe has a lot of advantages. Price is not one of them. Someone who wants to try rec kayaking likely does not want to spend a lot of change… Ergo you find them in Wal Mart etc. I sure thought $299 was enough for a rec kayak when I wanted to try kayaking.

We have two kayak rental places here that actually do educate on the good and bad of rec kayaks. They often rent a boat by the week or summer season.

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My Kayak Evolution: or how I became a snob.

10 foot pelican from Dick’s for $150. Spent $150 on a carbon shaft stingray for my first kayak paddle. Used a Sterns PFD I used for fishing and canoeing.

Took it to the pond with a bailer. and tipped it over in deep water with me in it. Did it on purpose. It trapped air So I flipped it over, pushed back and forth to splash out the water until it became unproductive, bailed, and remounted like a surf board. This was on flat water, not rough.

After that day of experimenting I added floatation with 12 pool noddle’s warped around the inside of the hull. Here are some photos of the fun I had with it. After a few months I wanted something with much more capability.







You can see some of the added floatation in this photo.

I then bought this.





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Whenever most here think of a rec kayak they think Walmart and under 300 bucks. I’m not an expert but when we are out I see these cheap kayaks a lot and there is quite a bit of difference with something like a 700-1000 dollar rec kayak. First is the weight rating. I see good size guys in these low weight capacity kayaks and they are almost swamped just sitting. They are flat and wide and really short. The difference in the better rec kayaks and a canoe is the kayak has more of a keel.

I don’t know about cutting thru or riding over seems like most boats ride over to some degree but I really don’t know.

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For reasons unknown, but time will tell, we wax solliquack quak quak solliquatic . We’re all Lucky sometimes as is well established we draw love for Dagger. Rewind Katama Nomad Mamba, as is established from here unknown from all manner of sports are Jacksons Zen Antix who shrink and dwindle Remix - taketh from us the Tilly with thanks to Samuel And of Beckett and thanks, and pirouettes are longboats for alls a play and we butt quacks plumb our parts with thanks to duckheads and in all gratitude do but smile at all when all is said and done when Godot arrives and the shuttle is here.

:laughing:

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I don’t thing so.
I started with a rec boat. I was mostly thinking of fishing. My interests evolved. I bought a used touring boat, then another and another. Eventually my first new boat. Added a couple canoes.
I ended up both paddling for paddling and going to remote places to camp.
Started with a cheap rec boat.

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This is a great point and one where our perspective forms our opinions. I’m still rather new to this. Been around water and boats my whole life but retired and want a simple and inexpensive way to fish and enjoy the water. So I bought a 150 dollar used canoe for myself and a nice rec kayak for her.

I have no idea what the future holds I have been known to go crazy with hobbies and a few years from now I may have a more sea worthy kayak as we live close to the great lakes. But I don’t think so, but then again you didn’t think so when you started out.

All I can really say is I’m very happy now and with making a few changes to both boats I feel 100% safe in doing what we do with them. They seem perfect for our needs at this time.

I will say I did some research before buying the canoe (not enough) and I did a lot before buying the rec kayak. Not once have I had buyers remorse for buying what some would think of as inferior boats. :canoe:

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I, and I suspect others here, remember a lady from Texas who took heat for paddling her rec boat Swifty (going on 20 years ago now) but who moved on to Sandpipers, Rob Roys, kevlar tandems and a marriage on the river leading to fossil hunting with a 19’ Grumman square stern. There’s just no predicting where our paddles will take any of us - IFF the limits of whatever craft one is in aren’t pushed too hard. It is always right to counsel caution.

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That was 20 years ago! Jill was and is still a character, I hope. We have had a bunch of nice, memorable people on here.

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