(Photo attached).
It has a sealed bulk head in the rear, but open in the front, just a giant chunk of foam up there to aid floatation.
In the event of a rollover, is this yak going to sink like a stone? Or am I going to have a solid chance at doing a self rescue and getting back in it?
This is 100% recreational, very slow rivers and lakes… didn’t come close to flipping last year (1st year kayaking in a sundolphin), now picked up a 12’ CD as an upgrade.
I don’t think it will sink like a stone, but I don’t think it will float like a boat with two sealed bulkheads, which is level. In order to try a self rescue you would have to empty the cockpit of water, or most of it. More easily done with another paddler who knows how to do a T-Rescue.
NRS has float bags on sale. https://www.outdoorplay.com/NRS-Kayak-Float-Bags. A less expensive option is to experiment by filling the bow with thick pool noodles. Would add flotation and with enough jammed in so they don’t come out, less water would enter the cockpit.
Others may have more creative ideas.
It’s a nice boat and would be really sweet if CD had added a front bulkhead.
I agree, I think for the quality that CD is known for, a front bulk head would have been nice… wasn’t even thinking of it when I bought it.
Anyway. I just took a rescue course today, which included both self rescue and the t-rescue with others. I also have the NRS float bag. Just worried about the boat sinking if/when I try it in my own boat soon.
If you haven’t tried to wet exit with your PFD on then you need to first learn how to do that. I advise you to have a friend with you, and practice that in shallow water, but deep enough you don’t hit your head on the bottom. You may want to watch a youtube video on this, or even better get professional instruction.
My experience is when you flip a boat upside down a lot of air remains inside unless you turn the boat on it’s side. This is especially true if you are wearing a skirt. So check this out as you learn to wet exit. Also when learning to wet exit learn to keep a hand on your paddle and boat because in windy conditions the boat can blow away from you faster than you can swim to recover it. If you have to let go of something then don’t let it be the boat.
Once you have a wet exit down then try with your feet off the bottom at the front of the kayak to twist the boat to break the surface, and quickly raise the front to empty the water then flip it over upright. You can do this in water that’s not over your head, but you want to do this without touching the bottom as if you were in deep water. If most of the water is out then go to the back of the kayak, and try to mount it like a surf board. Move forward until you can drop your bottom into the seat and then bring your legs in. This is often called a cowboy rescue. The use of a paddle float will stabilize the boat so it doesn’t flip over again.
If it is difficult to empty most of the water you may need more flotation in the front, or bail or pump the water out before trying to reenter. I always have a pump and large sponge I can easily access with me.
I had a 120 poly for many years and never got close to tipping but never took it out in rough water.
It will not sink like a rock but will sit lower in the water and more of a problem to re enter without assistance.
Sink it close to shore and find out. I’ve done that with several of my boats. I start by leaning until it goes. I like to know where the break point is .
I have a pelican 100 (10’) with minimal flotation. Before I added extra I practiced without a skirt as they don’t make a real skirt for it, I would flip it and empty then do a cowboy reentry. It takes on a lot of water so I use a bailer to empty it before reentry. I would not take it far from shore, but I have played in the surf with it. Not recommending to do that. You spend a lot of time pulling it out and emptying it. Fished and ran small rapids with it too. Had a lot of fun with it before buying a sea kayak.
The problem with boats with inadequate front floatation is that when they become swamped, you end up with a condition that’s commonly called “Cleopatra’s Needle” (I have no idea where the name came from). What happens is that the bow sinks and the boat ends up hanging vertically in the water. It’s not possible to self-rescue a boat in this condition and assisted rescue is very difficult, at best.
In order to be safe, you need to add enough flotation in the bow to keep the boat roughly level when it’s flooded. That way you at least have the possibility of self-rescue and assisted rescue should be relatively simple. Float bags are the best solution, but stuffing closed-cell foam in the bow (pool noodles, foam insulation), will also work, but will likely require more water to be pumped out of the boat.
If you have a big enough float bag secured up front the bow will not start pointing down. The issue with boats set up like that is that they will have a huge amount of water in them once they capsize. That complicates getting them flipped back upright as well as their stability once there, and the time it takes to get the water out. In more difficult conditions it is quite likely you will not be able to get the water out to be floating again well enough to make progress home to safety.
Valid concerns!
However, it was stated that “This is 100% recreational, very slow rivers and lakes”. Now we all know the conditions we are expecting and the one we find our self in can be very different things. This kayak is much better than a pelican 100 which I have taken out on the ocean, and had in small rapids (always within easy access of the shore) with out much problem. I tend to think this kayak will serve the purpose asked of it. That rescue instruction has been in fact sought already, and should have highlighted any concerns is also to be considered a plus.
Still it is good to point out the potential limitations
@bnystrom said:
The problem with boats with inadequate front floatation is that when they become swamped, you end up with a condition that’s commonly called “Cleopatra’s Needle” (I have no idea where the name came from). What happens is that the bow sinks and the boat ends up hanging vertically in the water. It’s not possible to self-rescue a boat in this condition and assisted rescue is very difficult, at best.
In order to be safe, you need to add enough flotation in the bow to keep the boat roughly level when it’s flooded. That way you at least have the possibility of self-rescue and assisted rescue should be relatively simple. Float bags are the best solution, but stuffing closed-cell foam in the bow (pool noodles, foam insulation), will also work, but will likely require more water to be pumped out of the boat.
Cleopatra’s Needle
Position the kayak might assume…
Another option, though, if you don’t wander very far from shore, maybe not so much a concern, is a sea-sock.
When I started paddling ('86), I bought an Aquaterra Chinook. Had a foam rear bulkhead and no forward bulkhead.
I bought a sea-sock and tested quite a bit, it did work well (though, not very comfortable).
I don’t know how available they are anymore.
If you’re wearing a skirt, why not remain seated in the boat. If you also have on an adequate pfd, you and the pfd act as an outrigger and the boat should float on edge. lay back in the water and try to maneuver your upper body toward the stern of the boat. It’s possible that the boat will right itself. It works for me in my Sirocco and even without a skirt on. Yeah, you get a bit of water in the boat, but not enough to keep the boat from popping upright.
My theory is with enough paddling time, you will learn the nature of the boat and the possibility of ever being flipped is highly diminished unless you go out in really horrendous conditions.
The stern compartment and bulkhead should provide good flotation, so long as the hatch does not become dislodged. You can put an airbag in the stern compartment “just in case” if you are not carrying gear and anticipate paddling water that might give you trouble. I assume this boat has a vertical minicell pillar running down the center of the bow. This supports the deck and reduces the chances of the deck collapsing on your legs in a pin, but also will provide enough flotation to prevent the Cleopatra’s Needle effect. And unless you have removed foam from the boat, your boat will not sink.
However, a lot of kayaks do not have an overabundance of flotation, and if completely swamped will ride relatively low in the water. Kayaks with a lot more flotation in the stern than the bow tend to wallow nose down in the current. These can be difficult to rescue from current. Whitewater kayaks became very short over a few decades, and many playboats now have room only for small bags in the stern, and no room at all in the front. The upshot is that in these boats, the cockpit area which is occupied by your body and cannot be filled with flotation, comprises a far greater percentage of the internal volume of the kayak than it did in old school, long and pointy whitewater kayaks.
The problem with a 12 foot kayak is that you are not going to have room for anything but pretty small bags in the bow. If you have a central pillar, you will need a pair of bow “split” bags. But any flotation that is not secured to the boat will want to try to float out if you swamp, or blow out if you car top. Flotation bags have corner grommets or nylon loops sewn into the corners. One way to secure a set of bow bags is to push a short length of 3/4" diameter PVC pipe through your front pillar at the location the rear grommets or tie down points will be with the bags inflated. Be aware that depending on the bag size and your foot length, you may not be able to fully inflate the bags. Run a short length of paracord through the PVC pipe and secure each end to a bag tie down point. This is somewhat easier said than done, because you will need to be working inside the bow of the kayak. Some people drill small holes through the deck near the bow stem on each side of the pillar, and feed cord through to tie onto the nose grommet of the bags.
A recreational size cockpit such as that kayak has is not really well-suited for a spray skirt. You might possibly be able to find a large skirt to fit it, but it will have a lot of deck area to catch water, and will relatively easily implode if you should capsize in heavy water. But then again, that kayak is not really designed for such use.
@castoff We had a local lake/I call pond that not infrequently attracts microbursts in the summer. It attracts rec boats and several times a year gets the attention of the rescue boat from the fire station a couple miles up the road. And as you said, this is an area where the OPer is working out issues.
@bnystrom said:
The problem with boats with inadequate front floatation is that when they become swamped, you end up with a condition that’s commonly called “Cleopatra’s Needle” (I have no idea where the name came from). What happens is that the bow sinks and the boat ends up hanging vertically in the water.
Once upon a time before bulkheads and proper floatation, if you capsized in your kayak and had to do a wet exit you would be lucky if your kayak didn’t sink. Sometimes there would be enough air in the bow or stern to cause the kayak to float pointing straight up. I asked Derek Hutchinson why this was called Cleopatra’s Needle. He replied, “…with the kayak’s bow pointing to the sky just above the surface of the water, it reminds me of the obelisk [named Cleopatra’s Needle] that stands on the River Thames Embankment in London. Also, with all the water in the kayak it probably weighs just as much.”
