we’re talking roll practice
I’m with bmach. I’ve heard the same thing said about spray skirts, sit-insides, etc., etc., etc. I paddle in late afternoon quite often when temps are in the upper 80s or low 90s. Humidity is off the charts here. I never paddle without my pfd or spray skirt because after a few years I’m conditioned and I don’t even notice their effects.
If I’m rolling in water that’s under 98.6 degrees it will cool me off.
If I want to get out for a fitness run and it’s 95 and blindingly sunny? Sometimes I reconsider making that decision.
Keep pushing back, Pik.
You can question authority without challenging it as long as you are aware of and willing to suffer the potential consequences. Don’t forget that a smile and a relaxed, friendly demeanor can really work to your favor in most situations. The majority of these enforcement types are just decent folks, after all. Don’t forget also that you can never win with some individuals, and sometimes it’s better to cut your losses and revert to “yessir, no sir”.
state park
While I admire your rescue practice, independence and since of liberity, you both seemed to understand the state park policy. A park can have a PFD policy and could also consider an inflatable fanny pack not a real PFD, even though it is a type 3. While you consider yourself capable of self rescue, most people go out in rec kayaks all the time without a PFD. Is the ranger supposed to know you have more skills than then next person, and how can he let you not have a PFD when you turn upside down in your boat, and make someone in a rec boat wear one?
When I was learning to roll, I had on a PFD, and people assumed I needed to be rescued and was wearning one because I couldn’t swim. One guy was quite the expert, had a SOT, and said he didn’t need a PFD because he could swim.
Anyway, the park has a policy to protect all of the visitors not just you. And if they did have some kind of evaluation, wouldn’t a previous injury to your shoulder be a concern for the individuals who would need to rescue you if there was a problem?
agree on the rolling
I’d assume one would be wearing a pfd in conditions where they’d need a roll so they should practice with whatever pfd they’d normally be wearing.
Fitness paddling is another issue. If you’re paddling at an aerobic exercise pace there’s not much “conditioning” you can do for air temps over 80F combined with dewpoints of 75F or higher like we’re having here right now. If there was I’d surely be conditioned since I’m doing 2-3 sessions per day. Right now my pace at 60 strokes per minute and heart rate of 135 is about 10-15 seconds slower per kilometer than it would be in cooler weather. Put on a pfd and a spray skirt and I’d have to paddle so slow to keep my body temp within reason that there really wouldn’t be any point in going out. With a race approaching, there’s no opting out of training so I do what I can to train effectively without injuring myself by overheating.
I don’t think 95 degree will cool someone effectively either. My lake is currently running about 93 in the morning and 97 in the afternoon. It literally feels about like a hot tub. Ever try to swim laps at the gym when they’ve got the pool turned up to 85F for the old farts? You overheat.
Jumping to conclusions
I can roll with the PFD on, have done so “in conditions” as well as flat water.
The reason I don’t wear the PFD while practicing is because it makes some things (such as balance brace) easier to use less-than-perfect technique on. I see no reason to do a balance brace “in conditions” but it has definitely helped tune up my roll, and I’ll continue to practice it–without PFD–as a training aid.
I already explained the above in an earlier post but maybe you didn’t read it.
Looks like LCD thinking has taken over a lot of people’s thinking. There is no way I’d paddle WW without wearing my PFD, but I choose to do that whether or not the law requires it. Ditto for knowing how to swim, to roll, and everything else that I have thought about and consider important for my safety.
Sometimes they flat out lie or bluff
The same ranger in the OP first told me I had to be wearing the PFD. The only paddlers who must wear a PFD are children under 13 yrs of age, and I (politely) told him that’s what the law was.
He seemed surprised that I knew what the details of the PFD regs were. He’s probably managed to bluff some paddlers into wearing PFDs when they’re only required to carry them on board. And even that one is subject to discretion depending on conditions (that’s why I did not get a ticket).
One should always question authority–not necessarily out loud, but as a check against bluffing and harassment. If you don’t do this, you’re just another sheeple.
“Question Authority” decal shd b changed
You’re right; belligerence never gets a good response from anybody. But it’s important to think for yourself, even if that means there’s risk of getting belligerent.
The bumper sticker would be less confrontational and more universal if it read, “Think for Yourself.”
Looking back
– Last Updated: Aug-04-10 12:55 PM EST –
I probably would've shortened the whole process if I'd offered to demonstrate all the ways I could rescue myself (without any PFD) and told him I knew there was leeway for not carrying a PFD, depending on the conditions (it's in the regulations).
That would've been more proactive instead of defensive.
The fact that he ran a record check for not having a PFD makes me wonder, though. Does he do this for every person he questions? Maybe he thought I was an illegal immigrant...I have a dark tan and black hair...
different perspective…
I often go to a local county park to practise rolling. The policy is to wear a PFD for everyone on the pond. All the kayakers like having a fresh water pond to practice and think it’s reasonable to have everyone wear one. So there is no problem for us.
No big deal. We are glad to have a place to practice rescues and think the policy is very reasonable for a public green space that has to be managed for the public to use it with safety, and all we have to do is put on a PFD, and not get chaged extra for high maintance people who waste a lot of time for people trying to do their job.
They can simply not allow people to kayak on the lake unless they are enrolled in a program or sign a waiver and pay the fee for all the extra hastle.
We also have the ocean and rivers where we don’t have to wear one, and a lot of people choose not to.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a PFD policy at a managed park. If someone asked me I would put it on or put one in the craft.
If I want to practice without a PFD I’d go someplace else.
I do pay a fee to go there
Every place I paddle requires an entry fee, and some require boat fees as well.
If it’s simply a matter of not alarming the rangers, I have no problem with going through some sort of process to get a special permit or whatever. Swimming and off-leash dogs are prohibited at this pond, unless you get special-use permits. Which some do. Maybe it’d be worth looking into this.
maybe he
was singling you out… I don’t know the area that well and I’m thinking along the lines of a heavily managed park where that kind of policy is hard to get around.
I cross posted with my last post and as it is with the internet none of us were there with you, and maybe you felt harrassed? We have have the ocean where people can pretty my do whatever they want. CC and DNR will aproach poeple in unstable crafts (john boat) and ask to see PFDs etc. We also have beaches with life guards that have made me carry my kayak all the way to the non protected area. Yeah, she was a 20 year old in a bikini, and total bitch, but that’s the way it goes.
Anyway, hope you find a good place to practice. I wouldn’t push it with our local park but I also have plenty of other places to go. I also wear a PFD so DNR doesn’t stop me when I’m out.
legal waivers, demonstrating skills
why I admire that the OP is trying to find a workable solution she finds pleasing to her and acceptable to Authority:
- signing a waiver (who would draw it up? are you going to produce one on the spot that you drew up?)
would not relieve the park facility or its staff from its implied dutyto render assistance. You can’t waive that right in those kind of publically administered jurisdictions.
- offering to demonstrate your skills would put the ranger (or other LEO) in the position of rendering his expert opinion on those skills… he is a park ranger, not a BCU/ACA doing an assessment
If something went wrong any good lawyer would crucify him and his employer for falsely implying knowledge and expertise… unless Eric Jackson or Sam Crowley decide to moonlight at a ranger, this is not gonna work.
while the intent is good, both suggestions are fraught with legal complications and highly impractical.
As yakwise wisely pointed out, there are already rules in place, and for good reasons - for the public as a whole. It is not about the big bad Authority but establishing simple but workable parameters. I do not expect the parks to customize rules for me. I do expect that they - and I - will be reasonable in the enforcement and adherence. In both contexts we are thinking for ourselves as to how our respective actions comply. Thus there is latitude shown by authority and cooperation shown by individuals.
Paddle craft operators either wear a PFD or have one on the boat (depending on jurisdiction). Simple, really, as slushpaddler and others have pointed out. Much more simple than waivers and demonstrating skills.
In the time took to compose all these messages and read them the OP could have purchased an inflatable PFD or one of the type mentioned by Roy (fadedred).
But a little philosophical exchange can be a good thing, too '-)
Too many rules
I’ve been biting my tongue until now. When did it happen that we need so many rules? A generation ago kids grew up having knowledge and wisdom passed down. Where did it go? We now have a generation made up largely of people who don’t have basic skills for living. Consequently, we have a nanny society put in place to protect these people from themselves. As a result even those who are capable have to submit to LCD rules. What a mess…
that is one warm lake!
I can see your point.
why does it matter?
I really don’t understand your frustration with this. You keep coming up with all of these “shouold done” scenarios. But in the end, you were breaking a law. Put the pfd on, at least long enough for the guy to go away. If you do that you’re probably not even talking about this the next day.
There seems to be a need for you to prevail over this guy in some way - or to find some sort of injustince that was done to you. Your remark about your hair and skin color is plain off the deep end. We can only control ourselves, so forgive me if I’m missing something but the energy spent handwringing about this seems like a colossal waste of time.
on fire
– Last Updated: Aug-04-10 2:50 PM EST –
You SlushPaddler, Jim, and others really are hitting the nail on the head!
The type 3 fanny pack inflatable is a good option.
This is interesting because I was informed that our SUP program is leading the development for the curriculum for SUP for the ACA. We have been testing the evaluating the type 3 inflatable PFD and find that we like to use it for some fitness training in kayak and SUP in a controlled environment. But our department, outdoor rec, doesn't set the PFD policy for the county park lake that we use. The Operations department makes the rules there and so far the inflatables have been ok for what we are doing there.
When we run trips in the salt water rivers we decided to require regular tpye 3 to be warn, because they offer more protection from landing on oysters and they are safer.
Not sure which way the ACA will lean with that (haven't heard anything) and I always recommend the regular PFD, tell them that's what I wear, etc, and also inform them of the laws which has some flexibility when out in public waterways, races, etc.
I've had people get injured, administered first aid, near misses, and a lot of logistical challenges, which is hard to balance out without being over zealous.
I also notice when I'm swimming in a lake, I've gotten a little too used to a PFD, so I can relate, even though I prefer to always were a PFD in a kayak and see no real benefit to practicing without one.
Most people would consider practicing rescues alone with no PFD as potentially unsafe.
I have a theory about that
My theory is that somewhere along the line, probably concurrent with the increase in liability lawsuits, people stopped taking responsibility for anything and transferring it elsewhere. From there it’s just a short leap for the lowest common denominator to pretend the responsibility is someone else’s: the schools, the bike manufacturer, the sidewalk contractor, the state, etc.
So then we have idiot parents sending their kids out without PFDs, putting them behind the wheel at premature ages, allowing them to party with their older siblings, you name it.
I think rules and regulations like the PFD law are unfortunate. But they’re intended to protect the lowest common denominator from themselves and others, because these people aren’t compelled to do it themselves.
great post. this says it all.
yeah it’s toasty this summer
Normal water temp on the lake in summer is 86-90. Rain from heavy afternoon storms and cloud cover from those storms usually helps keep the temperature within reason. It has been very sunny this summer and that shallow brown water sure is efficient at absorbing sunlight. It actually gets hotter than the air when there are a lot of consecutive sunny days.
pfd for landing on oysters?
I’ve got a question about a type III pfd offering protection from landing on oysters. Are we talking face plants? Falling on the oysters when getting out of the boat? Hitting oysters while upside down but still in the boat?
I’m having trouble picturing a scenario where the pfd is protecting you from oysters while in a tidal river in your boat. I can’t picture a situation that would result in accidental capsize in water shallow enough for striking oysters to be a concern. It isn’t like oysters grow in high wave energy environments.