Initial Review: Eddyline Raven v. Tempest 170

[Shadepine]

So after almost two decades paddling two plastic touring kayaks (Wilderness Systems Tsunami 165 and Wilderness Systems Tempest 170) I just bought my first “non-plastic” (that is, non-rotomolded plastic) touring boat: a 2015-16 thermoformed (not composite!) Eddyline Raven.

The Raven is a 16’ 10" touring kayak that was made by Eddyline from sometime in the 1990s through 2016 (I think, dates are fuzzy). From what I’ve gathered, most Ravens were composite boats…but just before it was discontinued, they made some from thermoformed plastic (Carbonlite 2000). That’s what I have. I bought it second-hand from someone who bought it second-hand in 2018 from Next Adventure in Portland…who obviously bought it from someone else, LOL. The boat is in near-perfect condition.

All the reviews I found online raved about the Raven, which is what pushed me to buy it. Most importantly, I read a few reviews from Raven owners my size (in the nearly 6-foot, 200-220lb range with big feet), and they all loved the boat. I was really curious to compare it to the Tempest 170—which is hands-down one of the most popular and loved sea kayaks ever made.

I got on the water with it for the first time last night at a local lake (Fern Ridge Lake outside Eugene, Oregon). I took it for my usual short loop, about 4 miles that included some windy, choppy open water, dead-calm water back in the marsh, and tight turns on a twisting creek.

Here were my initial reactions (and remember, the closest comparison I have to the Raven is my 17-foot rotomolded Tempest 170):

• The cockpit is narrower—I’m in good shape but have wide hips (I wear XL shorts and waist 38 pants). I had no trouble settling down into it, but definitely felt a bit of “squeeze” on either side that I don’t feel in my Tempest 170. The obvious benefit here is a better connection to the boat…the downside is, almost no wiggle room, which is good to have on long paddles.

• The Raven has Sea Dog footpegs which are great. Love the adjustability! I paddle in summer with a pair of Bedrock hiking sandals (which have relatively low-profile soles and aren’t bulky)…and I noticed immediately that there is less footroom than in my Tempest, where I have plenty of space (I wear size 11-12 shoes). Like the narrower cockpit, it wasn’t bad…but it took a minute for me to find the ideal position for both feet on the pegs.

• The boat did not feel any tippier at first than my Tempest. The Raven has low initial stability, with rock-solid secondary stability. It feels very tippy if you’re trying to keep it perfectly level in calm water…but lean a bit further to either side and you can sit there all day. So stability was not an issue at all.

• I’d read the Raven has a bit more rocker than other similar designs and is very responsive to turns. This is true! It definitely felt more responsive to leans and turning strokes than my Tempest. And what I noticed about the Raven is that once you set it on a turn (with either a lean or a sweep stroke) it tends to stay there and keep turning, which is nice. In my Tempest I have to keep “nudging it” through a turn more. And when you’re done turning, the Raven was easy to straighten out again.

• Regarding speed, I didn’t do a hard test…but the Raven felt faster. Not by a lot, but it was noticeable. My average speed over my 4-mile loop was 4.9mph. Which I can easily do in the Tempest…but it felt easier in the Raven (e.g. I didn’t feel like I was paddling as hard for the same average speed). To average 4.9 in my Tempest I have to push pretty hard.

Overall, it felt like a great boat in every way…except the more narrow cockpit. That’s the only thing I wasn’t loving. It’s not uncomfortably tight…but I guess I’ve gotten spoiled by having the wiggle room in my Tempest (and even more space in my Tsunami 165). When you’re out on open water for a long time (over an hour) being able to move around a bit more makes a big difference. (The Raven has a sliding seat, and the previous owner was 2" taller than me…so sliding the seat forward just an inch or so might help?)

Regarding weight, the Raven is (I think) 52lbs versus 57lbs for the Tempest. So just a 5lb difference, but I felt the lighter weight of the Raven on the water. Not a huge difference, but definitely a difference. (And the Tempest is a remarkably light boat for a 17’ rotomolded kayak! It’s at least 5lbs lighter than my Tsunami 165, which is 6" shorter!)

Below is a rough comparison photo between the two boats. The Raven is 2" shorter than the Tempest, so not much difference. You can clearly see that the Raven is a lower-volume boat (I don’t have volume in gallons for either), so that explains the slight footroom issue. The Tempest just looks like a fuller boat throughout its entire length.

And looking at the cockpits, the Raven’s is wider—but it did NOT feel wider…so maybe the seat is more narrow in the Raven? (I’ll measure both seats and find out). And specs confirm this: Raven cockpit = 16.5" while Tempest is 14.5".

Note: if you notice the backwards “Eddyline” in the image above, it’s because I flipped the image so it would match the one of the Tempest.

[Jyak]

Fantastic review and comparison. Your prior reviews have convinced me that a 165 Tsunami might be a better fit at my current weight than my 175 Tsunami.

[Shadepine]

Thanks @jyak - I’m still thinking the Tsunami 175 would be my ultimate boat, at least for long-distance touring. (Or if they had a Tempest 180, that might be my ultimate distance boat too…)

I’ll write more on this later…but I’ve continued switching between my Tsunami 165 and Tempest 170…and I’m feeling more strongly all the time that I prefer (in ALL circumstances) a boat with a rudder over a skeg. (Which is funny considering I just bought another boat with a skeg, LOL)

I also continue to believe that all other things being equal, the more margin between your weight and the boat’s max capacity weight, the faster you’ll go!

[Jyak]

Agree with everything you say. I’m 6’ and weigh in the 230 lbs range, size 13 shoe. Most of my early paddling was in the 145 Tsunami. It rides better after I lost 20 lbs, so my weight is right at the sweet spot andvit handles well through edging alone (not rudder equipped). I learned to edge with very little padfle input, and focus on using the paddle for maintaining speed. My paddle action rolls the boat with each stroke, so its a matter of anticipating how much roll is needed to edge the track. It works most effectively with a high cadence and consistent speed momentum. It’s a little like driving on ice in that you don’t want to overcorrect with each stroke.

It had been a while since I pulled the 175 Tsunami out of mothballs last year. I wanted to padfle with Craig and knew I wouldn’t keep up in the 14 footer. Even though I learned to edge more efficiently since last padfling it, the lenght continues to confound my efforts to track straight. I can manage it without a rudder up to 8 mph winds, but after that, it has a mind of its own and needs the rudder. I can track the 145 much easier by edging then I can the 175 with the rudder, and I can’t get the hang of edging in combination with the rudder. I feel the 175 was more suitable for me at 255 lbs. I might ballast it to see once and for all, but I hate the thought of adding weight, because it increases displacement and drag.

Craig has the 180 Tempest PRO. I sat in it when we picked it up, but didn’t paddle it. His son has a 145 x 25.5 Tsunami (mine is 24.5), so I’d like to compare the two models and his 170 Tempest, but I think itbisnt wide enough to feel comfortable. If I can get down to 210 lbs, I’d try my 140 Tsunami (24 inch version).

Waiting to hear if Craig pulls the trigger on a 175 Tsunami PRO (61 lbs vs. 69 lb for the plastic version - not a big difference, but the fiberglass model has built in bulkheads instead of foam.

[Wormdevil]

The Eddyline Raven has a sibling - the Rockpool Alaw Bach. There was some sort of reciprocal relationship between Eddyline and Rockpool - Rockpool design and Eddyline fabrication. More here: Ruby Creek Boathouse: Rockpool Kayaks Alaw Bach!

[Shadepine]

So wait…I’m perpetually confused about this. Can you just special order a boat like a Tempest 180 Pro or a Tsunami 175 Pro from Wilderness Systems, TODAY???

I keep hearing conflicting info about this (some say no you can’t, some say you can?)

Because I’d seriously consider selling all three of my boats (now) and replace them one of those two—if I could get one!

[Jyak]

I thought they were discontinued, even the 175 Tsunami. Im not sure what they’re offeringvat present. I believe you’d have to call Wilderness Systems for status. @Craig_S could probably tell you when he get flagged by this thread abd has time to reply. His 180 tempest pro came from the Dingy Shop. I believe it is used. I’m still waiting to ask why he is getting a 175 Tsunami Pro. I’ll do some checking later today.

[Craig_S]

They brought back the Tsunami 175, in Rotomolded. They discontinued it for the past two years but apparently there was enough angst that they brought it back.

WILDERNESS SYSTEMS | Tsunami 175 Sit-Inside Touring Kayak | 9720717054

You get one color choice.

As for the pro models they have been discontinued since in 2016 being 2015 was the last model year for them.

my Tempest 180 Pro is a 2012 Model, and the Tsunami 175 Pro was a 2015 Model.

You can find the 1Tempest 180 Pro’s from time to time here on the marketplace or on Facebook Marketplace. however after getting some seat time in the 180, and doing some performance testing between it and the 175 I decided based on the data I was gathering that the Tsunami 175 is going to be a better and faster boat in sub-optimal conditions than the Tempest 180.

I wrote extensively here on this topic:

In which situations do you reach for a larger paddle?

@Jyak I did buy the 175 Tsunami Pro, The pro is very similar to the Rotomolded boat save for lighter, and the angles are sharper. So where the 175 Poly bow comes to a more rounded point the rounded point of the Layup is a bit sharper and less rounded (smaller radius at the nose.) Same goes for the hard chines, they are sharper on the pro model. So all in all it should have better glide, than the poly boat and maybe slightly faster. Haven’t gotten the 175 Pro back yet Blue mountain is still eff…

So I started my unicorn hunt for one, where I thought finding a Tempest 180 Pro was tough the Tsunami 175 Pro turned out to be finding a needle in a haystack. After two years I found one.

It had two cracks in it, one in the hull, that had been repaired semi-professionally and one in the Deck. (Never Never Never use ratchet straps.)

So I was able to get the price down from 1500 (original ask) to 1200 then to 900 when I pointed out the cracks. BlueMountain is professionally removing the current Patch and putting a large Carbon patch inside, on the hull, and also putting a inside carbon fiber Patch on inside for the deck crack. As well as putting Resin on the exterior of the Crack and vacuum bagging the exterior to force the resin into the crack.

this is why it’s taking so long. when done the patch area will be stronger than the original

Additionally to strengthen the boat they are running a Bow to Stern 4" wide Carbon Fiber Keel Protector on the boat to both protect the hull, and stiffen the boat. All in all I’ll pick up 1-2 Lbs of additional weight.

but the quoted repair still brings the TCO under the final asking price of 1200.

I( probably wont have it for this season but, and this is why I like layups, they are easily repairable with fiberglass or carbon fiber and resin and some plastic sheeting and a schrader valve and some tape.

[Jyak]

You answered why the Tsunami Pro, and recall your details about the other models. Its surprising, but I trust your numbers. The Tsunami is a workhorse. The entire line from 125 through 175 is rock stable. Id like to hook up with you and compare somenof your boats on your local lake. I’ve pnly been out once this year. Lots of week long trips. Finger lake was too stormy. I was busy buying 11 cases of wine. Several camping trips. Too stormy.

I like plastic, because its abuse proof. I looked at reviews about the 175 Pro. I like the sharp edges and bow/stern. Speed isn’t everything, right . . . “Unless you has it!” I got to torture test the 260 cm Kalliste. Let me know when you have time. I can go up to your place to test some of your boats. Your politician leaches require license registrations on paddle boats- feckless clowns. I don’t register my boats or pay toll to scurvy dogs.

[High_Desert]

The way it was explained to me is that the hull of the Raven is pretty similar to the Alaw Bach (especially the center section), but the deck is all Eddyline. If I ever see an Alaw Bach TCC in orange, I’ll probably trip over myself to buy it.

The early Raven (call it the Gen 1) was composite and a VERY different boat from the Gen 2, which began its run in 2012, I believe.

Also, the hull material on the Gen 2 Raven is thicker than the other Eddyline models to better handle abuse, so it’s a bit heavier. It’s interesting how impressions can differ; I find the primary stability of the Raven to be very good.

Mine is a 2016 model that I’ve owned for 5 years, and I still love it. My wife likes to steal it, though…

[ppine]

We paddled some rented Eddyline kayaks in the San Juan Islands of Washington. We started from Anacortes and they were great in chop, ferry wakes, tidal rips and power boat confused seas.

The Raven is all my all time favorite Eddyline kayak due to the amount of rocker it has.

[pbenter]

I had a Tempest 170 pro, which I felt was a bit too small for me at 6’ #230. Once inside it was great. I also sat in a Tempest 180 pro on the showroom floor, and it felt like it was two steps up in size, gigantic.

[Jyak]

We’re similar in height and weight, which emphasizes the value of actually trying the boat before buying it. You probably have a more . . . Muscular build, with a smaller waist, compared to my 38 inch waist. I need a shoehorn to get into the 170 Tempest and have even bigger issues with the footroom. The 180 Tempest PRO feels custom fit for me.