Insight for roll instructors

just had a thought
BrazilBrazil turned me onto a model of a sea kayak with a military paddler type in it. I cannot remember the name or who makes it. It comes with all kinds of guns/junk for a ‘seal’ type commando…BUT strip all that stuff away and you’ve got a model kayak with paddler and paddle in his hands that you can use. Last weekend I sat down with the youngest daughter and show her the steps in rolling using this kayak and commando,holding it in the air, then filling up the kitchen sink and showing her the mechanics of the basic sweep roll. The little commando guy is very articulated and emulates the arching very well…so instructors consider using a hands on model that you well can get your hands on. Mayb BrazilBrazil can supply the actual name and maybe a link.

That would be great!

– Last Updated: Jan-29-07 12:17 AM EST –

I've thought about making a pipe cleaner stick figure on a piece of wood, to illustrate the sweep; how the torso is curved in a C shape toward the surface during the first part of the sweep, stretches out along the surface and the boat starts to rotate upright throughout the sweep, and torso comes up with the head last in the opposite C shape toward the end of the sweep.

Also good to illustrate how keeping the head down forms the C shape that helps rotate the boat to the upright position, but lifting the head up early puts the torso in the opposite C that rotates the boat over on you. (Good point too, above, that you have to lift on the wrong knee, to lift your head up early, which also rotates the boat over on you.)

This sounds a lot better than a pipe cleaner stick figure. I've sat in the lazy boy, myself, with a GI Joe watching Dubside do some of the forward rolls, positioning the doll in the setup position, then flipping it upside down.

Paul S.

glad you like the idea
i could actually see the lights going on in my daughters brain…couple this with a Dubside video and you’ve got a good plan…you could even take the commando and add a scruffy beard, the commando is already wearing a black outfit that looks tuliqish

Thanks so far.
This has been a great thread for me. Very much appreciated. A lot of your thoughts are re-enforcement for me. Some of it is new; like the idea of holding a ball between the chin and shoulder to learn to keep the head down, and that a person has to lift on the wrong knee to pull the head up early.



I’ve read all of your thoughts at least twice. I like to think that when I do teach, you’re help will be passed on to your fellow paddlers through me.



Much appreciated,



Paul S.

This it?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2zgqb7



Only found it on ebay so far, but that would do.



Paul S.

Thanks!

found it
make sure to scroll down and look at all the pics!



http://kramwartap.fortunecity.com/kayak_review.html

Island Outfitters
sells a small, see-through plastic replica eddyline kayak–maybe a foot long–that Barbie can fit in! My friends love to see Barbie set up and roll. Warning: does NOT come with two bulkheads or proper floatation!

my favorite criticism
"Kayak floats low in the water and has a tendency to try to drown its occupant with frequent rollovers."



:^)

Flatpick
has been doing this for years to illustrate boat contol–might want to ask him if he does it to teach rolling as well.



Also, I think we underestimate the power of vizualization–modern cognitive neuroscience clearly shows that the same brain areas light up when you imagine a motor movement as when you execute the movement. More importantly, the increase in synaptic density in the area of the brain that controls the movement (part of what we call motor memory) happens with visualization of the movement even in the absence of the actual motor execution. Hey, watching Jay’s video and EJ’s video a 100 times and then working through the movements in your mind makes a difference.

One of the better books

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on visualization is, "The Mental Edge," Baum.

It helps to have performed the activity well. Once you've done that, then sitting quietly periodically, and imagining in detail what it felt like to perform the activity well, replaying the sights, sounds, feelings, imagining your doing it very well, has some of the same benefits as actual practice. Moreover, athletes who practice and use positive visualization, excel over those who only practice.

Paul S.

A weak area for me.

– Last Updated: Jan-29-07 10:04 AM EST –

Good reinforcement.

On criticism, I have a tendency to be too direct.

For example, I'll say, "you're not sweeping the paddle out enough."

I should say, "That's good! You're getting there. As we practice some more, try to sweep the paddle out farther, along the surface of the water. As you do that it will stretch your torso out along the surface of the water, and put you in a good position for the recovery." Also, reinforce the things they are doing well. "You kept your inboard hand close to your shoulder, in the chin up position, that's great!"

Easy to do in writing. I have to remind myself though in face to face interactions.

I tend to focus on what's not working. That's a good strength for diagnostics. I just have to watch how I communicate it.

Thanks for the reinforcement.

Paul S.

Another weak are for me.

– Last Updated: Jan-29-07 5:16 PM EST –

I closed my offer to teach with, 'If you reply, "You're too new, kid." I'll understand.'

I can do a good-form, slow, smooth, standard GP Eskimo roll. Similarly on the side skull. Similarly on a sweep to 90 degrees, then C-to-C. I can do similar rolls with the non-extended GP or euro paddle.

I can’t do (really haven’t tried much) a pure WW style C-to-C roll.

I can’t do any forward finishing rolls.

The way I'll handle this is to be up front about the scope of my experience and range of techniques that I can teach. If it looks like the student’s needs are outside the range of my experience, I'll say so and pass them on to a more experienced instructor. (We plan to have multiple instructors in the classes.)

The club is a sea kayaking club.

I agree with you though. Experience matters.

Paul S.






agree
Observation/Diagnosis was probably the biggest thing I’ve found with instructors. They would use a lot of positive reinforcement, but when some of the students I’ve observed asked the instructors to tell them what they’re doing wrong, they would sometimes be unable to provide them with an accurate diagnosis.



Obviously in the beginning, you may have a student doing a whole combination of things wrong; ie, failing to set up properly, using their arms to sweep the blade out instead of their shoulders/torso, bad paddle orientation or diving blade, punching the blade, poor or no hip snap, head up, etc. The good instructors can observe these things and then break them down into exercises that will address them individually until the student has eliminated that issue, then, move on to the next.

What style roll?
You didn’t mention one of the most important considerations. Will you be teaching hip snap rolls like the screw and C to C or lay back style? White water paddlers or sea kayakers?



I teach sea kaykers and the first thing I always do is pop their spray skirt and check out their thigh braces and fit. Often I will have them back up the foot pegs a notch.



Other than all the usual junk, you have to be patient and kind to all their phobias. Plus I insist they wear a dive mask. Then you use every trick in the book. And don’t wear them out. New rollers get tired easily and can get chilled. Two at once is easier than one because you can go back and forth while they rest and watch.

where did hip snap come from anyway?
I tried showing people on land or in the water by lifting my knee and twisting my torso,“you know there’s isn’t exactly a “hip snap” as much as a crunch on the left while twisted to the left then a crunch on the right while twisting to the right”. Trying to do all this without falling over.



Belly dancers might be able to bounce a coin off their hips with a snap but the rest of us folks twist.

A little confused…
Just caught your post about what you can and can’t do -

“I can do a good-form, slow, smooth, make it look easy, standard extended paddle Eskimo roll. Similarly on the side skull. Similarly on a sweep to 90 degrees, then C-to-C.

I can’t do (really haven’t tried much) a pure WW style C-to-C roll.

I can’t do any forward facing rolls.”



Not sure what you mean by forward-facing rolls - do you mean forward finishing rolls, where you come up sweeping forward rather than back? Or do you mean that you finish looking at the ceiling, like on the back deck? That would be as in not tucked over with your face looking at the bottom of the pool/side of the boat all the way curling up.



Also, can you scull or roll with a non-extended paddle, and can you lay either on your side or your back and hold the scull?



The reason I am asking is that part of being able to teach someone how to roll may be demonstrating the stages of one. Like getting partway up and rotating the boat a bit back and forth so that they can see exactly what is going on. Or, as mentioned above, hopping into their boat and rolling it so that you have a better sense of what they are working with if the fit works at all. If there are points in a given roll that you can’t demonstrate well, you may want to avoid teaching a roll that emphasizes those spots.

Yup you know
I like how you added why it’s good to do it this way or that and point out the benefits. You almost have to sell it to them and once they see it work they’ll hang on every word. They need to be just as confident in you as they are in themselves (or more so).



I used to teach hang gliding and since people could get really hurt I put a lot into understanding how to teach (certification was pretty tough too). Most of it is learning how to read people. Knowing when to push and when not to. Every student was different.

Visualization and Simulation

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When no one can see me, I'll climb the stairs at work and "boat twist" on every step. It looks like the leader of a marching band.

From Ken Kastorff?
He was involved in the development and dissemination of the C-to-C roll and certainly used that term early on.