Is there a practical water temperature when you quit kayaking for the season?

In the past (am now in waters that don’t require drysuit - FL) I’ve used drysuit in many different situations, from surf play to extended trips.
I never had leaks from zipper or gaskets. I did have gaskets wear out over time (used both front zipper and back zipper drysuits).
Getting to the surfski persons point - when used for surf play (winter - off WA coast (northwest)), I would heat up quickly, and the little dampness I got inside was from sweat (also have a bit of sensitivity to latex - would end up with a bit of a red ring around my neck).

Drysuit Failure (where a wetsuit would be preferred):
On one extended trip (paddle around L Superior) in (a quite cold) June, I was wearing the drysuit just about every day (mornings).
About halfway around, pulling it off over head - the neck gasket tore. Luckily, the remainder of the trip was quite warm, did not need the drysuit.

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Personal preference - there are people (Sing for instance) who prefer wetsuits for whatever reason. No problem with that. In terms of the issues above:

The drysuit does not provide any insulation, so you do need to add insulating layers for warmth. With the right insulating layers (takes practice) I find that I am actually warmer in my drysuit than I would be in my wetsuit - especially my feet. I do sometimes get a chill when I stop for lunch, but that is going to happen in a wetsuit or drysuit.

You will sweat when paddling in a drysuit, so the insulating layers will get moist (I wouldn’t say wet). That is one of the reasons that you need a good base layer to wick moisture away from your body.

I have always used latex neck gaskets, and have never had a leak. Might be different if you use neoprene, which is why I don’t. Eventually the gaskets will fail with use, but that is more likely to happen when you put the suit on or take it off.

As I said above, I have never had a zipper leak, but you need to make sure it is closed all the way. I did have a suit where the zipper eventually failed from age, but that happened when I was putting the suit on, not once it was securely closed.

If the drysuit fails (gasket, zipper, puncture/tear), then you are in trouble - no doubt about that. In my 15-years paddling I have never seen it happen. Hopefully I never will.

I am a river paddler, so I am not going to be bobbing around in open water for extended periods of time (hopefully). This spring I did take a safety class that involved swimming that had me in the water for over an hour - no leaks, not cold.

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The “drysuit vs wetsuit” debate is a perennial fall topic in these forums. If you search that topic, you’ll find 20 years of discussions. Most of the folks here have expressed his/her position on preferred gear, one way or another. Each arrived at his/her positions from their own venues, experiences, skills, etc. Judgement is the key because it weighs the relevant factors for that particular individual.

sing

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MohaveFlyer, you mentioned your doubt about being able to do a reentry in a dry suit.
I don’t own a dry suit and no one I know in Wyoming does either, but I have an idea that may be helpful. A theory that is possible worth testing:
Use a paddle float and do a reentry and roll.
I learned that trick last year and now I have taught it to 8 other people. If you use a solid paddle float it’s faster then using an inflatable but the foam floats give about 1/2 the buoyancy of the inflatables.
In my process of learning to roll I took Paulo’s advice and started out learning bracing, chest sculling and balance brace/back sculling first. He advises using a float to start out and that’s what I did. In doing that kind of drill I learned to tip the kayak from a hard edging lean to a full capsize and than back, using the float on the end of an extended paddle. It only took me about 30 minutes to get comfortable doing that.
So I reasoned that if it was easy to do, I should try doing it if I capsized when I was not doing a practice session. To try it I’d flip over and exit. I’d put the float on my paddle and inflate it and then I’d run the other blade through the deck rigging in front of the cockpit. Now with both hands free I’d take a deep breath and run both legs back into the upside-down kayak letting my head go under and as soon as my butt was in the seat I’d grab the paddle, extend it and do the rolling technique Paulo taught. WORKS LIKE A CHARM!

I showed it to a friend (Steve M.) and he thought it was great but took it a step farther and bought a solid float so the time needed to inflate was eliminated. Using his foam float we can capsize, do an exit. Rig the float onto the paddle, reenter and roll back up all in 30 seconds or less and not even hurry much. Just doing the "next thing’ and having the drill down pat so there is no waisted motion made it fast (“Slow is smooth and smooth becomes fast”)

So if you took an hour or so to teach yourself that drill the type of clothing you have on, (bathing suit, street cloths, wet suit or dry suit) would make no difference at all. And with practice the reentry and roll can be perfected to a point you don’t need any float.

Steve M. told me something I think showed some wisdom however. He says he’ll use the float in real waves or chop even if he thinks he doesn’t need it just because in the “real world” you only capsize in waves and chop. It’s the rough water that caused the capsize in the 1st place. So using the solid float it takes him about 10 seconds to get the float on the paddle and that 10 seconds extra is as close to a 100% guarantee he’ll come up the 1st try.

I use a collapsible bailing bucket to empty the cockpit down about 80% before I ever get out a bilge pump because it’s so much faster. One something like these https://www.amazon.com/Buckets-Complete-Gardening-Environmentally-Plastic/dp/B08QVX18TT/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=Silicone+Collapsible+Bucket&qid=1697375196&sr=8-10

All my kayaks have one tied inside the cockpit behind the seats on a 3 foot line and each dump takes out about 2/3 or a gallon so getting the cockpit emptied to a point the kayak is stable again is so much faster with the bucket than it is with a pump, so I don’t bother with the pump until the water is only about 3" deep inside. One trick I use is to take the paddle and place it over your shoulders with the naked blade behind your neck and the float in the water. Doing that you can brace down on the float in big chop with only 1 hand. Use the other to bail with until the water is only 3" deep in the cockpit. Replace the skit at that point in time and get out the pump. Peel back the skirt just enough to use the pump and set the naked blade of the paddle in the deck rigging, again to form an outrigger with the floated end as you edge toward it a bit. That way you can use both hands on the pump. When the pump starts to suck air put it away on the deck rigging, remove the paddle, remove the float and place it under the bungies, reseal the skirt and you are all done.

I hope this post is helpful to you in some way, and to anyone else that reads it too. I have found using a paddle float and doing a reentry and roll is WAY easier then doing any other type of reentry I ever learned. Also once you are in have the float on the paddle gives you WAY more support than a naked paddle so dealing with waves and chop is a lot more stable using one than anything I ever tried without one.
If I flip I try to roll up, but if I miss the roll 2-3 times I simply go to this technique because it’s fast and sure fire.

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My approach is the opposite but not necessarily better. I like to use relatively thin neoprene when I can in Spring and Fall since it feels like the most comfortable option to me and for heavy duty protection I wear my semi-drysuit because for me it’s more comfortable than thick neoprene. Properly-fitting (tight) thick neoprene will trigger my claustrophobia big time. I’m not thrilled about the comfort of latex gaskets on drysuits but you get used to them and on my semi-drysuit the neck gasket is neoprene.

If you try on both wetsuits and drysuits the decision may be easy.

I don’t think a drysuit is restrictive but if you don’t have a good feeling about drysuits just stick with wetsuits!

But good luck sneaking up on wildlife in a drysuit, they are noisy. :worried:

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I understand how many regions, even warm ones like California, require immersion gear. I’m not that commited to jump into cold weather gear. Primarily because i don’t like cold water, and I have enough trouble venting heat when I paddle. The only reason I’m posting is the curiosity I have about balancing the insulating properties when out of the water againt the amount needed when immersed.

The though conjures an image of wearing a garbage bag while using exercise equipment. When diving, the wetsuit thickness is primarily calibrated to just the water temperature.

That is the $100K question. The answer is to dress for immersion, but you spend most of your time in the boat, and you don’t want to be hot and miserable when you are paddling. Personally, I find for temps down to the 40’s a polypropylene base layer and fleece drysuit liner work fine. Get into the 30’s and I’ll add polypropylene thermal underwear. Wool socks and neoprene boots for the feet. Neoprene gloves and a hat or helmet liner. Take a swim and you will feel the cold water, but it won’t be the bone-chilling cold that you get when your skin is exposed. People figure out what works best for them.

Yup - it can definitely be a little like that. The name-brand suits are made with GorTex or other breathable fabrics, and that helps. Still, when you are paddling hard moisture will build up in the suit. That is why you need a moisture wicking base layer. Drysuit liners come in moisture wicking fabrics as well.

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I’m not clear on how people use the “paddling jackets” over neoprene.

Also the two piece combos of semi dry pants and jackets. How is the waist sealed up? It’s really a mystery to me how water doesn’t leak in.

Oh I like that

Where did you find the solid float?


Blocks wind if you’re wet.

Indeed. although I would prefer a so called windbreaker like this:

then, as it ‘breathes’ and dries better.

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But it can’t keep water out or you wouldn’t be wet? or do you mean from sweat?

Risking death almost sounds better than how complicated and expensive this all is.:sleepy:

Really, I’m just not a yankee. It took me three years of being in Germany to figure out how to dress just to walk to town, its a real art form.

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I too wonder how you can avoid paddling in your own personal sauna with a dry suit. In 45 degree weather a tee shirt keeps me at the right temperature outdoors when I’m getting a good workout, paddling or otherwise. Normally comfort is all about layers, but there is no way to remove or add layers under a dry suit. Do you guys add jackets over them at all?

I owned a 3/8" wet suit once and had to roll every five minutes just to cool off while playing dodgem floes. It was miserable.

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https://www.amazon.com/North-Water-Kayak-Paddle-Float-Yellow/dp/B0073QTYYC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=3OTDC9UZLK2QM&keywords=kayak%2Bpaddle%2Bfloat&qid=1697460598&sprefix=kayak%2Bpaddle%2Bfloat%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/NRS-Foam-Paddle-Float-Orange/dp/B003E9CO9O/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2IPESO8E9NG5D&keywords=foam+kayak+paddle+float&qid=1697460712&sprefix=foamkayak+paddle+float%2Caps%2C145&sr=8-3

And one other way to get one is to make it yourself. Foam N More sells closed cell foam.

If you take 2 pieces and place them over the blade of the paddle you want to use with an overlap of about 2-1/2 inches and contact cement them together you can make floats to fit your paddle exactly. When fully dry make up a “pillow case” out of light cordura with a strap that goes around it’s end and comes back long enough to hold with either or with both your hands To use slip the float over the blade and simply hold the strap along the shaft or loom of you paddle so it can’t slip off. You can also attach a buckle or any such type of attachment you like as a way to tie it on and in rough conditions it’s nice to be able to cinch it up, but for a quick use it’s not needed. Remember that in cold water you do not want to rely on a system that requires fine motor movement of your fingers because if they are cold you’ll be unable to use them well.

You slip it over the blade and hold it there with the strap or rope line, reenter and roll. Holding it in place once you are in the kayak and need to bail water out, is a nice feature, but you can do that either before you roll back up or after, depending on your needs (and water temp) at the time.

I made 2 that way for 2 friends who use GL paddles so the floats could be made longer and slimmer than what they could buy. What I made for them were only 7" wide but were 24" long with the “pillow cases” being about 4" deeper so the foam stays inside them well. I didn’t make the cases myself because I have a lady friend who’s masterful at sewing things, has 3 sewing machines so I drew up the plans and give them to her with the Cordura. 2 days later they were done.

The tie lines were made about 4 feet long and simply get stuffed into the case so they are out of the way when the float is held by the deck bungees. If they grab the rope at the mouth end of the float and pull, the whole thing comes off the kayak from under the bungees and also it pulls the rope out of the case So you slip it over the blades and either tie it at the loom or just hold it with both hands so it keeps the float from coming off during use.

Very fast. Very easy. And very inexpensive to make too.

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Steve, I think you must make everything. You probably even make your own dirt.

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Naa…John only God does that.
But all other things come from water or dirt so I simply rearrange the things available to me and make what I can from them.
:slight_smile:

My dad was a country boy and grew up during the great depression. He learned early to make what was needed in times when there was no money to be had. In WW2 he was a Seabee with the Navy and went in behind the Marines and the Army in the invasions of Guam Saipan, Tinian and Okinawa. In those days they made small towns (Military bases and camps) , floating piers and air strips ---- and did it all with hand tools. Electric power tools were new and not available in most cases on the islands in war time.
After he came home he brought that core value with him and he and my mom homesteaded the land I grew up on. We were a long way from a town and if we needed something we made it. Not everything, but most things. He taught me that buying raw materials (wood, cement and steel) and having them around was a great asset and from such stacks of materials most things you’d need you could make, if you had tools and the skills to use them.

Such days of necessity are mostly gone (for now) but the work ethic and the abilities are never something that is unwelcome.

I have always been a “country boy” and the only 2 times in my life I was not well outside of any town or city were my times in the USMC and also 2 years when I lived in the middle of a small town in Nevada, but even then I was anxious to move out to the country again.
There IS an element of inconvenience being a long way from any town, but the benefits I feel outweigh the inconveniences. Even getting ready for each winter is still an exercise in self reliance and responsibility. Those things are what makes a country strong in my opinion. “Hive-mind” can seem as if it were a strong point, but in reality and in all history it never works because mankind will always fall back on letting “someone else” do things, and all hive-mind results in disagreements as to who’s job something is.

REAL country folks know who’s job it is.
It’s MY job.

It’s wonderful when others can show up to help me do MY job, but if they don’t I simply do it myself.

I tend to hate the era of the cyber world BECAUSE it’s dealing with things I cannot make, or work on, and it leaves me feeling helpless.
Square peg in a round hole I guess.

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Yes but the cyber world puts knowledge at out fingertips. I love being able to find things and where to buy them, but even in a large metropolitan area, less and less is available locally. Instruction material is everywhere on line.

I still like catalogs for comparing. Still have many from when I started kayaking.

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Regarding temperature control in a drysuit (mine is semi-dry) I find that just holding the collar open with your finger for 15-20 seconds can help a lot to vent moisture and it’s especially effective on a breezy day. Plus you’ve still got hat and gloves to play with…you can make noticeable comfort adjustments just by carrying a range of hats. But in winter I’m just cruising around and even at a leisurely pace it’s hard to avoid chills or “too hot” periods. I’m on rivers so as eckilson said my underlayers are chosen just for comfort since the drysuit provides lots of immersion protection until I get to shore. I still carry a dry bag with dry clothes when wearing my semi-drysuit.

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To keep you dry after you get wet or from splashing.

How to Dress for Paddling in the Spring | Paddling.com.

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