More from Celia
Response to OPer’s request and a couple of comments on other comments… (love forums like this dontcha)
The Pilgrim Expedition may be the ticket in that line, rather than the Pilgrim Pilgrim (as in pizza pizza), which is the day boat. You should definitely have a conversation with pikabike about that - she has a Pilgrim Expedition on order.
The Aquanaut LV is am interesting idea, but I haven’t gotten into one. It may feel too wide for someone who loves the fit of the Vela. Agree that the Nordkapp LV, while a very fun boat, will feel big. My husband has one. It sure does roll easy though, even for me. And it tends to give the paddler lots of opportunity to practice.
Moving the bulkhead back in the Vela is at best questionable gain. The boat is only 15’8" to start, so there isn’t a lot of space gained, and without going into all the details the front of this boat is not where you want to push the weight. If you are going loaded, you want to push the weight to the stern in this boat. (I periodically get my boats backwards and load the Vela like I would the Explorer LV - doesn’t work out well.)
Now in response to the concern about those 10 inch round hatches… thus far I have only gone out loaded for camping in the Explorer LV, so my camping experience in current boats is entirely around dealing with those hatches. As to overall capacity, no problem as long as you can get it thru the holes. That’s fine, even for my very inefficient habits.
But I’ll be the first to admit it takes planning. I had to pretty much leave behind the bigger drybags that I used in my CD Squall and get a whole lot of 5 liter bags. I also have to pack a big over the shoulder bag on top, and use that to carry the smaller bags to the camp site. Tent poles come out of the tent, basically the diameter of longer stuff has to come down. But then again, we carry a 2-3 person free standing tent.
The larger diameter cookware can get dicey. Bigger diameter stuff has to go in Jim’s boat, with the ovals.
We don’t camp enough that any of this is fatal, and when we do camp it is often on leave no trace islands. So we are going out and back with some stuff that can be left behind with less primitive camp sites.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
It’ll be 75 over the weekend and I just drove back from a pet sitting thing in a little wet snow… love the northeast.
Amen tokeeping the weight in the stern
of the Vela! There is already an issue with that bow being locked in. I try to keep the light stuff up there. Also, I’m not going to alter my 10 year, old well used Vela in any way to make it work better. Come on, I have an excuse here to get another kayak!
I suppose packing a higher volume kayak through round hatches is better than stuffing gear into a small kayak through oval hatches.
Now I just need to get into some of these kayaks and see how they feel on the water.
Sharon
day hatches
I disagree with your assessment that day hatches use up space and make packing harder. I’d say the opposite - they actually make hard-to-reach space useable. The extra bulkhead in a composite boat is less than an 1/8th of an inch thick, and it allows you to pack the huge stern of the boat much more efficiently and get at stuff more easily. Not to mention the safety considerations of having access to emergency supplies on the water.
All the day hatch compartments I’ve seen and used are about a foot long, or slightly longer, and the full width of the boat. My rear deck is about as low as they come (Valley Pintail), and in my day hatch I fit a full 8L drybag with all my emergency equipment (first aid, boat repair, lights, extra jacket, etc), a second 8L drybag with my lunch and snacks for the day, a 1.5 L water bladder, gloves, hood, and my helmet. It all fits in there, and it means I don’t have to dig all the way into the main hatches whenever I need something on shore or on the water.
round hatches
The only thing worse than the NDK 10 inch round hatches, is the 9 INCH round hatches on the bow of some “classic” Valley boats. The only two I can think of which still have a round hatch in front are the Anas Acuta, and the Pintail. However, it’s a bear to pack. Both these boats have the majority of their packing space in the bow, but getting it in there is really hard. A 20L drybag is difficult to fit through the hatch. What’s worse, it’s easier to get stuff in than it is to get it out. I’ve occasionally wrestled and cursed a bag of clothing that I was able to squish into the hatch, but which has now relaxed into a pear-shape with me pulling on the stem, and the bulge decidedly wedged under the lip of the hatch!
If camping is the main purpose, I’d probably look for something with oval hatches on the bow and stern.
Different style?
I may be wildly off-base, but if you need something more like a cargo cruiser for long trips, maybe a different style boat would be in order. The Q10X or Q600X came to mind when I read your post - although you appear to prefer a more highly rockered hull. Just a thought, at least it comes with the right displacement for your size, and with a skeg available...
PS big hatches too.
And there is good cargo space and
large hatches in them also.
I was going to suggest them but it appeared that she likes a different style boat.
They are both fast, even when loaded down.
cheers,
JackL
hi Sharon!
I’ve had the pleasure of meeting Sharon & paddling a bit w. her during the Hugh Heward last weekend.
She is a very strong, swift & accomplished paddler.
Slender and muscular. I doubt there is a production seakayak made that will feel tippy to her.
Sharon, I second the mention of the Silhouette. Love that boat. Bet Keith Wikle would let you try his, or see Jim Mulder at Gunn Lake Sports south of Grand Rapids.
Here are a couple not mentioned:
Caribou S… there are a couple minty used ones hanging out in MI right now. Plenty of room, swift, agile, and friendly to traditional paddling. The Caribou was reworked for 2010, suggest you try the pre-2010 boats, some outfitters have them and will be clearancing due to the changes.
CD Cypress - I tried this boat last year as a potential tripping boat & there was a surprising amount of great contact for me (sizewise I’m 5’3" and 117 lbs before gear). It is one smooth moving boat w. lots of room but never felt ponderouts. Has the day hatch if you think that matters. RKC has one in their demo fleet for this Sunday if you can make it.
besides all the other advice, comfort and support are also key features of a good tripper.
How the boat handles loaded will be a bit tricky to evaluate. But that is just as important. guess you can bring some water jugs or drybags loaded w. buckshot LOL.
The boat you want to paddle day after day, peeling off the miles for a trip of a week or more is going to feel different, than a daytripper. I mention that bec. it is our natural bias to like a boat that feels like what we regularly paddle for day outings.
Further thoughts re packing
I may have overshot the mark - I replaced a few quite large, stiff plastic dry bags with 5, 10 and 20 liter fabric dry bags, with less stiff closures. Granted more than a couple of the smaller size... WaveTex bags and similar work really well. So it's not like they are ALL the tiny bags.
Also, one thing to be said in favor of the Silhouette is that it has a fast hull. Hull speed is a real issue in trying to replace a Vela - these are quick little squirts and there aren't a ton of general use sea kayaks out there that do this as well.
The one thing that may bear a hard look is if you have one of those cook sets that nests a couple of cups inside a couple or few pots. It is surprising how many of these sets with more than two pots in them have a diameter of around 11 inches with the outer two pots in there. They look like they should fit thru until you actually try to do it. The one-person sets are usually going to be an OK size.
Horsepower
When it comes to muscles and joints, strength training will help.
Round hatches in NDK are fine
I managed to load my Hilleberg Unna, poles and all, into the front hatch of the Explorer LV (just barely, though). Bigger tents probably won’t go through in one bundle. The Eureka Mtn Pass XT1 that I still have also packs very small; I don’t have it in front of me but I think it has shorter-than-standard pole sections.
The oval rear hatch of the Tempest 165 was easier to load into, as was the oval rear hatch of the Squall. Frankly, large openings in structural parts worry me, but then again I am leery of sunroofs and moonroofs, too.
A glass Tempest 165 should give you a bit more room, as it’s slightly longer than the Vela. The reason I specify glass is that in plastic boats the foam bulkheads take up valuable storage space.
I’ll let you know how packing space works out after I get the Pilgrim Expedition. Which, unfortunately, I have no delivery date for. It didn’t make it onto the first container so I’m afraid the boat will get to the U.S. late in the year. Still trying to get more info on expected arrival dates range. I’m hoping the kayak will retain the things I really like about the T165 and the Explorer LV, but feel less sluggish when loaded.
1 paddle a 12’ Dirago
Harry a 14’ Loon, Brian a 16’ sea kayak.
It is amazing how much gear an extra 2’ can carry.
To reduce unecessary load and bulk, I switched to carrying 1 gal of fresh water i na MSR beneath my thighs and a Katadyn water filter with back-up tablets.
Switched from my beloved single-burner Coleman stove (with green bottles) to my cmaller Optimus Hiker stove. only one small fuel bottle.
Light-My-Fire eating kit over my plates and bowls etc.
Rather than buy a bigger boat, that is trouble navigating these smaller streams (I had to back-paddle a half mile in Kansas once) I started to look for ways to reduce bulk.
I’m still working on it but it sure beats towing a rubber raft filled with my extra gear!
CD Suka ?
Have you paddled a CD Suka ? It has more room is hard chimed, skag, lower then your current boat.
Impex Force?
Brian mentioned the Nigel Foster Silhouette but I’m surprised no one has mentioned Impex Force 3.
A Sirius S might work, but I don’t think it would hold as much as a Force 3.
Impex Force?
Brian mentioned the Nigel Foster Silhouette but I’m surprised no one has mentioned Impex Force 3.
A Sirius S might work, but I don’t think it would hold as much as a Force 3.
No
Have not tried a Suka (it's kind of short for longer trips) and I won't buy another CD product, anyway. If the Pilgrim Expedition doesn't fit the bill, there are some other candidates in the 17' range. I can even demo them first at no charge.
The Explorer LV's low deck is great, especially in back. I'll never give that up that trait.
You another CD dealer?
Day hatches hold a lot of stuff
Especially so if the middle bulkhead is slanted.
Won’t do without one again.
Read the OP . . .
She’s looking for something that will carry more.
TideRace Explore S
If at all possible do yourself a favor and demo the Explore S. 17’6" long 20" beam. Fast, maneuverable, handles rough water with no trouble and if packed right can hold a weeks worth of gear. BTW, very comfortable.
Yeah, but she wants it to fit
The Tern has a huge cockpit, relatively speaking, so the fit will be compromised.
Slower to accellerate, yes…
…but the difference in speed once under way is minimal and a loaded boat has more inertia, so it slows less between strokes. The bottom line is that there shouldn’t be a lot of difference in speed over a substantial distance.