Unnecessary, but nice
I agree you don’t absolutely need a drysuit to paddle through the winter. I paddled through many winters without one. I always took a change of clothes, and I stayed off “big” water, i.e., anyplace I would be unable to quickly get out of the water. That pretty much ruled out sea kayaking, and I always get wet in the sea kayak anyway, so I avoided it when the weather got cold anyway.
I swam out of the canoe once in snowmelt with ice slabs floating along with me. I had on paddling jacket and pants over fleece. I got soaked, but the paddling gear reduced the rate with which the water came onto my skin, and kept the icey water from circulating directly on my skin. I think it works rather like a wet suit at that point. I remember being impressed that the swim wasn’t near as bad as I feared after hearing the horror stories of gasp reflex, etc.
But having a drysuit is nice. Even if you are not going in the water, if the weather is cool and rainy, the drysuit will keep you dry and toasty. And on swimming occasions, it is hugely convenient to just be able to get back in the boat and go vs. doing the side-of-the-river, shiver, peel and change.
To those concerned about the cost, I suggest a comparison to what you spent to get into your boat and paddling equipment. With the drysuit, you buy yourself another season. So, whatever you spent to get into warm-weather paddling, you should be willing to spend again to add a second, cold-water, comfortable, paddling season.
Be sure to get a drysuit with built in socks (booties). Before I replace my ankle gaskets with latex socks, the drysuit was so difficult to get on and off, I hated to wear it. The socks make a huge difference and I no longer hesitate to put on the drysuit.
Great link to a good deal on the bPod above. I might go for that myself since I’ve never been completely happy with my current Bomber Gear.
~~Chip
You Are Correct
My apologies to g2d.
In the 1950's and 1960's the Catholic school system attempted to beat grammer into my head. Alas, their teaching methods appear to have had little long term effect.
Kaps, thanks for the english lesson.
Mike
two piece
top and pants is more versatile for kayaking when you can get back in your boat and pump it out…
I have both Stolquest (pants) and Kokatat Gortex (jacket) and can’t tell any difference between the two… both are excellent…
Location, location location
As noted above, you don’t say where you live or paddle. In winter temps in the northeast the winter means dry suits for most, and I’ve run into an increasing number of non-WW canoeists who want to paddle into the winter and have asked my advice about dry suits. Granted some were because they had a surprise spill after years of no such issue, in cold water. Others were people who wanted to extend their season and got uncomfortable with the idea of being less protected.
At least one of the all-canoe folks who asked me liked paddling back waters, and they had found out the hard way that when the water drops in the winter or starts getting a little chunky it is a lot easier to be surprised by logs or other debris.
Cold water is cold water, and not having to worry so much about it is a adds a comfort level that for me outweighs other factors. JackL and his wife are somewhat the exceptions to most we know (and I know of one locally too). Most people we know of who get their first dry suit spend a while saying nicer things about the suit than their boat (or their spouse). Even non-rollers.
For me, even with the canoe it’s easier to be able to just wade in and out of cold water without worrying about whether the water is coming over the top of your boots. Unless you are wearing waders, I guess.
Darwin?
Seems like the consensus is that you need a dry suit if being in cold water without immediate (1 minute) escape is even a possibility, which fits both canoeing and kayaking. I certainly think so.
Of course, that consensus could be due to the Darwin effect. ;-)))
perspective
Another way to look at is that if you capsize in cold water without good immersion protection, even if you get to shore safely your paddling is probably over for the day. At the very least you've got to dry out and change into the dry clothes you brought along in a drybag.
If you're in a drysuit, you just empty your boat, climb back in, and keep paddling.
Do you NEED a drysuit? I'd say no, as long as you're willing to take some precautions, including limiting where you paddle and in what conditions. Cold-water paddling is more risky than warm-water paddling, even with a drysuit. A drysuit just gives you more options, and a much bigger safety margin if used wisely.
I took the dog out in the canoe a couple of weeks ago. I wore mine.
Gasp reflex
It's real simple:
1- You fall into cold water.
2- You begin gasping uncontrollably.
3- You suck in a lungful of water.
4- You die.
This can easily occur in shallow water as it happens in a matter of seconds and in water as warm as 60 degrees. Once you suck in a bunch of water, you're a goner (many victims never come back to the surface). A dry suit will prevent gasp reflex, as it's caused primarily by the effect of cold water on your neck and chest.
You don't need to "justify" wearing a dry suit to anyone. What you're really asking is if you can justify NOT wearing one. Generally, if you need to ask that question, you need a dry suit.
IMO, not dressing for immersion when paddling in cold air/water conditions is just plain stupid and if you have a family to support, it's incredibly irresponsible.
It seems from the accident and death statistics that canoeist routine ignore the need to dress properly and wear PFDs. That's why so many die every year...well, that and adding alcohol to an already lethal mix of bad decisions.
Canoeists die too
Every year a few Canoeists die in New England in the spring according to CG stats. A flooded canoe is almost impossible to reenter without a lot of skill and special training. Canoeists often don’t wear PDFs too. They know the water is cold but don’t really know how lethal it is. Many canoeists stand up to change position with another person or during fishing and make that one fatal balance mistake. You seem to have a more distant connection to the water in a canoe than a kayak and I think it’s a false sense of security.
The kayak community seems to have a more wide-spread educational base as far as cold water information.
"many victims never…
...never come back to the surface"
Um, couldn't you find a way to NOT stray over the top and/or totally side-step the logic of a particular example when this subject comes up? Conveniently referring to what can happen to a non-PFD wearer in deep water is not an honest and straightforward way to respond to some of the practical advice already given regarding what happens to paddlers who fall in shallow water close to shore, since NO one has disputed the fact that there ARE many situations where a drysuit is the only safe choice. I like what a couple of posters have said about how changing out of wet clothes can ruin your plans for the day, and how a drysuit makes the same dunking much easier to deal with as well as providing peace of mind even if you stay dry. A dyrsuit covers the whole range of dunking scenarios a lot more effectively than anything else, meaning it's very often the right choice, and there are certainly times when the occasional strainer and/or deep spot makes wearing one a way to be prepared for an unlikely worst-case scenario on an otherwise-innocuous river. However, if a person can judiciously limit where and when they paddle, not having a drysuit isn't the same as being almost ready to die if you fall in. I watched way too many inexperienced paddlers fall out of canoes and change clothes on shore this time of year during my college years to believe that not wearing one is the extremely reckless choice that you invariably say that it is. There were lots of responders this time who put this topic in good, practical perspective.
By the way, this whole subject is admittedly very subjective. If one wants to use statistics to justify the use of a drysuit in shallow water while close to shore (people can and do die in that situation once in a while), that same person is a de facto hypocrite if they don't insist that everyone driving their car at highway speed must wear a helmet, because there's a very high risk of severe head injury during a high-speed collision (a statistic made even more important by the fact that even the most die-hard paddlers spend far less time paddling, especially in cold water, than they do driving on the highway). That's why, for many of us, this is a personal choice based on knowledge of what cold water "might" do in some situations and what it "will" do in other situations, and acting accordingly. Some people might decide they don't "need" a drysuit for everything for the same reason some people ride bicycles in rush-hour traffic when they could just drive, and some people will figure that the drysuit is something that can't be done without, ever. Neither person is "wrong" if they know why they made their choice.
Not if you strictly go by the numbers
You say that "The kayak community seems to have a more wide-spread educational base as far as cold water information." There are some serious and knowledgeable kayakers out there who know about cold water, but the only ones I've actually come across in the midwest are some of the ones in our local paddling club, and people I've met from p-net. Nowadays, the overwhelming majority of kayakers are inexperienced rec-boaters who know next to nothing. In fact, that group accounts for the overwhelming majority of all paddlers. "Kayakers" who actually know what they are doing and have some knowledge regarding the danger of cold water are an extremely tiny minority, at least in the area where I live.
When I'm not out with the local paddling club or with my paddling friends, I almost never see people in canoes when I paddle here, except for the rental boaters on the Wisconsin River (on that river, canoes are still the more-popular choice for renting on camping trips). I do see lots and lots of kayakers though, almost entirely in entry-level kayaks, and I have yet to see any of them wearing any kind of cold-water immersion gear. Also, I've been on the water a lot the last few weeks, and nearly half of the kayakers weren't even wearing PFDs (during this same time period, I've seen just three canoes on the water, and those paddlers were wearing their PFDs, though that's not a large enough sample group from which to assign a "percentage" for PFD use by canoers).
Don't make this into a canoers-vs-kayakers thing, because it's really just a comparison between people "with" and "without" practical knowledge about cold water, and these days, your basic "dummy paddler" is much more likely to be in a kayak than a canoe.
Canoer Vs Canoeist
Thaar be a difference yer know! Generally a canoer be one o' dem goomers dat may rent a canoo once or twice a year, ain't gots a clue wat they be doin', never hear'd o' a "J" stroke be let alone an' other strokes, flailin' paddles, many times filled wit firewater, ties dem's lifevest to a thwart (dun't know wat a thwart be anywho) or under de beer cooler, etc. etc. Ah' sees dem all de time in de Pine Barrens an' de Delaware River in de summer. Bet'ya 99% o' de fatalities in canoos be "canoers".
A "canoeist" be an openboat paddler who actually knows how ta paddle, knows their boat, kin read de river, knows ther boat kin actually move sideways, knows their limitations an' be safe doin' all this, etc. etc.
Now, in aar club (about 450 members) 95% of de members aar 'yakers. Thaar be a couple dozen of very good, knowledgeable, advanced 'yakers but most o' de folks aar rec 'yakers wit jus' de absolute basic knowledge to git fro' here ta thaar usin' only de forward stroke, gots no idee dat their boat kin move sideways or backward too - only goin' out in warm, dry weather. They dun't go paddlin' in any mildly challeging conditions, because they have no interest in doin' so. We have many clinics on movin' water paddlin' an' maybe git 40-50 folks showin' up. Most dun't give a hoot, but dem's be de ones who git inta trouble cuz they dun't want ta larn.
Now, almost all de "canoeists" (maybe 15 or so but increasin') in aar club are very good, experienced paddlers (almost all solo canoeists), know how to handle movin' an' challengin' water, aar equipped an' prepared fer "not quite ideal" conditions. Funny, on de cold weather trips de vast majority o' paddlers aar de canooists fer some reason.... hummm. Ah' wonder why?
Ya, ah' knows ah' jus' went off on a tangent but us "canooists" do mostly know wat we be doin'!
FE
"Fare Thee Well, Pilgrims;
May De Winds Bring Ye Good Tidings;
De Rivers Lead Yer Way;
An' May Ye keep Yer Scalp Another Day"
Thanks and woah
I appreciated this post and all the replies, I’m thinking through this myself.
However, It is unbelievably hard to read FatElmos posts! So much that I just skip over them. Type how you want, but if you want people to read them, please use English!
At least yer tried, Pilgrim
Give it time... iffin' yer keep at it, yer'll git it someday...
FE
"Fare Thee Well, Pilgrims;
May De Winds Bring Ye Good Tidings;
De Rivers Lead Yer Way;
An' May Ye keep Yer Scalp Another Day"
a little dip today
Went for a nice little solo paddle today, unseasonably warm in the mid-50’s but water temps were probably low-mid 40’s. No good place to take out the canoe so after unloading gear close to the car I tried to get back in the canoe from a tall bank to paddle it another 50 feet upstream to a better take out.
Long story short I ended up standing in waist deep water and walked it to the better take out. Thankfully it was only a few feet deep, thankfully it was at the end of the paddle, and thankfully I had a dry change of clothes.
Don’t plan on spending the money on a drysuit any time soon but it would have been nice today.
Alan
The fisherman in the spring standing
in a canoe to pee without his PFD is unfortunately lumped in the Canoeist category though the most interest they have in canoeing is that it floats and they can stand to fish. Some of them find out that Darwin is at work.
They wouldnt even think of standing in a kayak and thats what keeps them out of the "kayaker" community.
I find the rest of Jays post kind of misleading..Its not impossible to reenter a flooded canoe without extensive training. We teach reentry in introductory courses.
The big challenge is to entice paddlers to take those courses.. People sometimes take kayaking more seriously as there is often ocean involved. I find that kayakers there develop a sea sense and respect pretty quickly. Canoeists on the other hand may not expect to go out in anything other than calm waters.And the cold water says "gotcha". But its not a function of the craft but rather the paddlers attitude toward the craft and the activity expected.
+1
"I have been in the water during the winter."
Yup. So have I; several times. My opinion, but anything done in the outdoors - especially in extreme weather conditions - should be undertaken with the expectation that a lot can go wrong. Doesn’t mean it will, but a drysuit is pretty cheap life insurance.
I
skip them too…very demeaning and ofensive depiction of a certain populations speach to many…I am sorry to see this in this day and age.
Festus never done minded it…
did he? No complaint fro' Gabby Hayes or Norm Crosby ta me recollection. Neither does anybody fro' Joisey mind... so wats up? Wat kin' ah' say.... ah' be fro' de Joisey hill country an' thank de lord we dun't all parlay in midwest news anchor coommentater lingo.
Iffin' yer dun't want ta read me' jabberin' (admit it - yer do read it, dun't ya), then dun't read it. Simple as dat, ain't it, Pilgrim.
FE
I dont find them offensive at all
Having lived where FE lives, there are people who talk like that. Paddlers too.
Its just Hill Tauk. A NJ dialect.