Not narly at all
Sincere thanks for all suggestions. Most of us have seen potential disasters, or even worse, have had to pick up after other people’s disasters in the wilderness. I come down on people harder if I feel what they are doing is really dangerous.
So I truly appreciate all the safety concerns raised. I think all of them are valid (logistical issues such as being able to manoever in a heavy boat to perform a rescue and getting strung out, or experience issues such as paddling strength, endurance, swimming ability, wet exit and rolling capabilities, and equipment issues such as floatation systems, spray skirts, wet suits, storage and handling capabilities of the boats.) These are fantastic issues to raise with a novice kayaker.
Having opened myself up as one looking for suggestions, I can’t close the door on suggestions I disagree with. All families are different. My kids have done 3 and 4 day trips and are looking forward to something different. Our proximity to the BWCA has allowed us this ability. With a cabin in Ely, we look upon the BWCA as our back yard and are simply looking for a new way to play in the back yard. All of your suggestions will truly help in this quest. Thank you.
Don’t give up yet.
As the story unfolds, you are gaining lots of points for safety awareness, outdoor skills, and BWCA experience. Also sounds like the “kids” would rate well above average in those same categories. If you take all of this advice and info in the direction of 6 people, in some combination of 4 or fewer boats, I’d be interested to know what you learn about load balancing, relative speed, and flexibility of the crew. There may be a way to rotate among the “freighters” and the “play boats.” Hope you’ll keep us posted. Every crew is a unique blend of skills, experience and personalities, but I wouldn’t sell your younger members too short. I’ve seen a lot more adults roll canoes than Scouts. All the best.
It is always safer to just stay home,…
Sounds like a great trip and it sounds like you going into it with the right attitude and approach. I am a scout leader and I have three teenage boys of my own. One thing I know - if they are not having fun then you are not having fun. No one can guesstimate your groups skills, abilities, and endurance better than you. Suggestion: on a couple of lesser excursions with the same group (from what I have read you seem like a smart person so I can only assume that there will be some lesser excursions with this same group makeup)determine who is the most challenged paddler (speed/skills/stamina). Then, on the big trip, let them be the pace setter. This will help keep your grouping tighter and will prevent moral degradation. 10 miles is not a lot of water to cover in a day so start early and stop and stretch and play often. As far as gear, I come from a backpacking mentality and I find kayak storage to be enormous. However, if you are used to plop camping you will probably think the opposite. To me it doesn’t seem like there would need to be that much gear: you will not lack for water, you do not need an entire wardrobe, you should not be messing around with coolers and perishables, sounds like huge tents but other than that… what is all the gear you keep talking about? I have a 14 foot SOT and I can easily take enough stuff for a week.
Again though, it sounds like a great trip. Have a plan, follow it. Make sure that it addresses contingencies. You say that you always require PFDs so you are ahead of most people. Remember to dress for the temperature of the water and not the air. Additionally, use dry bags for you under deck storage and they will serve as flotation for the Loons and make them more easily recoverable should they go over. Have fun. Post a trip report when you are done.
I solo camp with my Loon 160T…but…
I load it down like a barge, and really enjoy all the niceties of home. It floats well down river, especially if you put more weight aft. My trips have lasted 3-4 days, and covered over 90 miles per trip.
Some of this was downriver, but I’ve also crossed a number of “ponds” [ie backwaters of several dams]. These ponds were 1-2 miles wide and 6 miles long or longer. I was quite satified with my speed; I could paddle the boat for hours without getting unduely tired. [However, I should mention that I often practice paddling upriver against the current]. BUT, the larger the body of water, the bigger the waves, especially in August! And here is my concern.
I waited until the break of dawn, or earlier, to cross these open waters when they were relatively calm. As the day progressed, the winds would pick up, causing the buildup of larger waves. I was ready to wait out the weather for several days if necessary, because as much as I love my Loon, I understand it’s limitations. I also have a healthy respect for mother nature.
The Loon, although quite stable, is a VERY OPEN boat. I’ve crossed rougher water with it empty, but not loaded down. The cockpit is so large that a spray skirt fits too loosely to be of much help against a swamping wave. And, you really DON’T want to swamp this boat!
When crossing open water, especially against wind or waves, tracking can be a real problem if the boat is not trimmed for conditions. You really need to distribute the weight correctly. IF you do, it tracks well. If not, it’s utter frustration! Some of these came with a rudder. You might want to consider this, if available.
Again, I love my Loon. It has opened up a whole world of kayak camping adventures to me. But, it IS a recreational kayak.
I don’t know how valid or important these observations are to you, but I thought I’d mention what my experiences were with this boat.
Good luck!
Thanks Michigan
If it weren’t 18 below (farenheit for those of you north of the border)I might be able to test the boats sooner. Our 160 does have a rudder, it does not track well without it. Have only paddled these boats empty. I found a local kayak club that will let me use their pool time though to test the waters, $5 for two hours, and I can bring a friend. Cheap night out!! We can practice tipping over for a while. Should be fun.
Camping with a Loon
I have owned a Loon 138 and still own a 120. The 120 has a smaller cockpit hole which comes to a point and the skirt will hold somewhat as wave break over the top. It is harder to load in the back because the seat is rigid unlike the 138 which has an adjustable seat. The 138 will hold more gear, but you have to make sure it is waterproof. Either of these kayaks are stable, but do not perform well submerged. They oil can easily too, but are very strong and take abuse. I sold the 138 and bought a Necky Looksha Sport. My son still paddles the 120 and still swims on occasion when it swamps…lol. Have fun and keep it safe. If you’re looking to do a week together… look at the Namekagon River in northern Wisconsin. It is narrow, not a lot of white water, has nice campsites (free), lots of access points for portages, and isn’t very hard to paddle. Just a suggestion… Later, Tom
Here is some camping help
Here is a link to all of my kayak camping equipment. http://www.spanky526.com/my_kayak.htm
You mention above that the kids were taking there personal gear, what time of the season are you going to go? Do the kids really need a big sleeping bag or can they be warm enough wrapped up in a fleece blanket? You biggest problem is going to be all the weight from packing food. Remember that people pay good money to loose a few pounds.
As for paddling you should plan on going around 3mph and that is just with basic paddling steering. So I don’t think 10 miles a day is not out of the question.
Is someone in your goup an experianced camper? Things like not eating in your tent or not leaving food out over night could bring more wild animals to your camp site then you were hoping for.
On my last overnight trip, I got passed but 2 guys in one in a loon and the other in an otter! They were on a 3 day trip, but had minimal camping gear. Tarp ground cloth blanket. They didn’t have spray skirts and only had 1 problem when one of the guys tipped. The boat filled with water but didn’t sink! It just took awhile to get the water pumped out.
When packing your items in dry bags don’t let out the air it will help with bouancy. Also when packing your boat put the heavier items in the back. If there isn’t room behind the seat strap it to the top.
GOOD LUCK!!!
Jason S.
Two words
Tow belts.
If the youngest ones poop out or just get bored, tow them. If the older kids blast on ahead, teach them how to tow.
Not that I have much experience with kids and I’m not very fond of rec kayaks because of the limited flotation and huge cockpit.
I think you might want to consider two double boats. How is a rec kayak much of a different adventure from a canoe paddled with a double blade?
thanks all
I am moving forward with planning on two tandems and two single kayaks. One of the tandems will be a certified freighter (a big Northwest Kayak or a Prijon Explorer, something like that). I am looking to buy a used one, if anyone knows of one for sale (just e-mail me, this string has run its course).
We are also looking for a single boat for a smaller adult/adlolescent–hurricane tampico?? Walden vista?? both these boats seem like upgraded rec boats, but more seaworthy than the loon. There are three of us in the house that are 140 lbs or lighter, so a small sea worthy boat?? (again, email me).
Thank you all. I’ll try to document my planning, education, training, etc, and file a trip report.
Your being new to kayaking then
Beachcamper may have had something to do with the Loon being a bear to handle loaded.
Our Loon 138 is a joy to paddle loaded. Just have to have the weight placed properly. Heavy towards stern. Dry bags shiftable so you can adjust sliding seat for weather if needed.
Right on about the youngsters...
Enjoy!
There is a nice Folbot tandem on ebay
Right now. Just type “kayak” on the ebay search engine. It’s listed for $1400 right now.
I think you have a great trip planned. I have kids of comparable age and am considering a similar trip. The beauty of the BWCA in August is the tolerable water temps. You really don’t have to worry about wetsuits, hypothermia, etc., as long as you are close to shore and have dry clothes in dry bags. Have fun!
Great trip.
Got back last week. 6 days, 5 nights. 4 boats: OT 160T (used as a freighter) paddled by adult and child, OT138 paddled by child and often towed, CLC14 paddled by 14 yo, and Current Design Crosswind Tandem (freighter and tow boat)paddled by adult and child.
Only two-and-a-half travel days out of the six. Had one “no go” day. The OTs performed very well, but we always were out in waves less than 1’. They were extremely stable loaded and could carry a lot of gear. The OT138 was by far the slowest boat, and we all went as fast as the slowest boat.
Traveled about 40 miles as the shoreline goes. Highlights include seeing no other people for first four days on Lac La Croix, pictographs, great smallmouth and walleye fishing. Went to a designated trout lake during a no-travel day and caught 6 brook trout ranging from 8 to 14 inches. Kids swam at every opportunity and had a curious otter as a spectator for a day and a half.
Safety issues: The US side of Lac La Croix is very intimate–we were never far from at least two shores. All the kids knew how to self rescue, and assist in rescues. Marine radio was on hand to contact Canadian Resorts (2)in case of emergency and to recieve weather updates. We also carried a lightning detector (detects lightening up to 40 miles away in increments). Except for heavy winds on one day (we did not move), weather did not hamper us. Water temp was in low 70’s.
Dangerous moments: Camp stove leaked at gasket when lit and a full canister burned out of control (coleman power fuel) completely destroyed knobs on stove. We all headed into woods fearing projectiles or explosions (neither of which happened).
A very memorable BWCA experience that exceeded my expecations. I’ll try to file a trip report when I catch up on things at home and work. Thank you all for advice and the information you all provide on these boards.