HI, first post to forum. thanks in advance for any advice.
I recently moved to house on Great South Bay in Long Island and am an experienced novice kayaker. My interest is to do day trips with and without my medium sized dog. I currently have two old started kayaks I got off craigslist, a Pungo 100, which I quickly learned can’t really handle the wind and chop of the bay. Then I picked up an old Dagger Baja. I love the rudder and it’s very stable even with swells and wind on the bay, but I’m wondering if I upgraded to either a longer or lighter kayak if I could expand how far I can explore in a day and have more fun.
I would also love to be able to get my dog out with me. She loves it and it’s nice to have company. I understand that I can’t get everything I want in one kayak so I’m open to getting two different boats. I originally wanted to get the Pungo 120 because of the large cockpit for my dog, but now that I have the longer Baja with the rudder I’m wondering if I should instead do a Pamlico 140 and add on a rudder. It’s super heavy so I don’t know if it’s actually faster than the pungo or not though.
And I have no idea where to start with a faster boat. My beach is all pebbles so I’m not that keen to get something that I have to worry about ruining every time I come ashore.
Two boats? Get ready to wake up one day and realize you have a small fleet! lol
So many boats, I’ll let others that have been packing their dog weigh in on that but as for the pebble beach, don’t worry too much.
I run my polly, fiberglass and wood boats wherever I want to play, for the most part. They are pretty tough and with a little care you can escape most actual damage pretty easy. A couple character scratches don’t hurt anything.
First, have you taken the dog out on a kayak yet? Not all dogs do Ok on kayaks. Before you buy a boat for that purpose, might be good to go to a rental place and rent a boat and see how the dog does. The bigger the dog, the more this could be a problem for you along with the dog.
A longer and narrower boat is faster. The Pungo and Pamlico are both recreational style kayaks, which means made for flat, calm water near shore. They are pretty slow, being wide (30ish inches). They aren’t made for any sort of conditions - the general rule is to only use them in waters no farther than you can swim back, as though they are hard to flip, when you do finally flip one, they are near impossible to re-enter and drain in deep water. That said, the large open cockpit could work for a dog, though having the dog there could increase the chance of that flip (and the larger the dog, the greater the chance of a flip).
Not familiar with the Dagger, but found this description:
“A rotomolded expedition-ready sea kayak designed for the small to mid-sized paddler. It comes fully equipped with bow and stern tethered Sure-seal rubber hatch covers, Dagger’s electronically welded bulkheads and the patented integral rudder. Length: 15’6 ft, Beam: 22.5 in”
That would put it in what is now called a day touring kayak. Dagger is mostly known for moving water boats, so likely the boat has a fair amount of rocker (which allows it to turn easy, but reduces its straight line speed). Should be ok speed wise - much faster than the Pungo./Pamlicos, but definitely not the faster touring kayak out there.
On landing on pebble beaches, just about any rotomolded plastic boat (all boats listed so far are rotomolded) should put up with you paddling the boat up onto the beach when landing. It may get some scratches, but would take a lot to get to failure mode. Composite boats (carbon, Kevlar, fiberglass, etc.), wood, and skin on frame are the ones that people usually baby more, though non would be what anyone would call fragile, so could put up with some hard landings.
@SharpsRifle said:
Two boats? Get ready to wake up one day and realize you have a small fleet! lol
So many boats, I’ll let others that have been packing their dog weigh in on that but as for the pebble beach, don’t worry too much.
Thanks for that advice. I drag my poly boat over the rocks and don’t worry, but good to know I can upgrade without too much concern. I’ve got two kayaks already and looking for 2 more so certainly on my way to a fleet.
@Peter-CA
Dagger was making a solid line of touring boats for quite a while that were not altered WW boats, in the 90’s that I recall. The Magellan was one that a lot of people liked. Don’t know the Baja but probably would find it if I poked around in their old catalogs for discontinued models long enough. So figure it is a typical touring kayak of its era. Sometimes it helps to be an old fart… though I am not as old as many here.
To the OP
If you can find a boat with a keel strip on it and pair with a cart, you might feel less hesitant about a composite boat and those pebbles. Frankly I have long since stopped worrying about it on the rocks in Maine, gel coat is a sacrificial layer. And I discovered if all I had to satisfy was my pwn aesthetics on the finish job I could lay in a patch pretty easily.
I personally can’t recommend any rec kayak for longer trips offshore on the Great South Bay, and the longer Pungo is still a rec kayak. That is a lot of open water to get caught out on if the weather changes in a boat with a huge cockpit and lacking any design elements intended to aid self-rescue. Not sure where you are on the south shore, but there are places where Fire Island could look temptingly accessible.
But a proper touring kayak, with two sealed bulkheads and static line for deck rigging, leaves the dog on shore. So you need to decide if those longer trips will include a dog and stay within swimming distance of shore, or will go further out and be a dog-free trip.
@Peter-CA said:
First, have you taken the dog out on a kayak yet?
Yes, she loves being on the water with me. She jumps on the kayak and when we get home she refuses to get out hoping I’ll take her out again. I’ve had her on a sit on kayak, paddle board and I even tested putting her butt in the larger compartment of my touring kayak, but I don’t think that’s a safe option for doing more than paddling around. I’m hoping to find an option that will let us go on longer adventures. I understand the rec kayaks are not as fast as a touring, so there may not be a perfect option, but just wondering if anyone has advice whether I should go for a Pungo or Pamlico or if there’s a tandem touring kayak that might be suitable, or if there’s another option better. Thanks.
@AFader
You really need to answer the question of how far from shore you want to go to get some good responses. As I said above, a proper touring kayak is not going to be recommended by the more experienced folks here if your plans are to get well offshore with the dog.
@Celia said: @Peter-CA
Not sure where you are on the south shore, but there are places where Fire Island could look temptingly accessible.
But a proper touring kayak, with two sealed bulkheads and static line for deck rigging, leaves the dog on shore. So you need to decide if those longer trips will include a dog and stay within swimming distance of shore, or will go further out and be a dog-free trip.
Thanks for all this great advice. Where I am is on a penninsula that puts me halfway between fire island and the mainland. It takes me about 40 minutes to get to fire island and I’m never far from land (as well as a lot of other boats). There’s really nowhere for me to go that puts me too far from land and people to help in an emergency I think. But also that’s why I do think I probably need two different boats, one for really long rides in a boat I can get better speed and distance and one that can handle half a day of paddling in wind and light chop and can accommodate the dog.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is will getting a longer kayak like a tandem or Pamlico 14 be faster or will the additional weight and surface area with just one paddler negate the benefit and I’m better off with the Pungo 120 or similar.? Or is there a SOT option that would be better?
@Celia said: @AFader
You really need to answer the question of how far from shore you want to go to get some good responses. As I said above, a proper touring kayak is not going to be recommended by the more experienced folks here if your plans are to get well offshore with the dog.
Where I am I can’t really get too far from shore. I would like to go distance, but will mostly be hugging the shore.
It won’t be the Pamlico’s weight that will slow you down, it will be its 31" beam. Also, if you do flood it or tip it, you’ll never be able to right it or get the dog back into as it doesn’t have enough flotation.
In your case I’d get myself a single touring kayak - at least 15’ long and no wider than 24" - and an SOT - the longer the better - for you and the dog.
My personal opinion is if it takes you 40 minutes to cross that could mean 20 minutes from shore under ideal conditions or decent conditions. You and you dog could be in a world of hurt out there really fast. Don’t count on other boats to help you. Your on your own out there. How big is the dog? Dogs age? Water temps you’re going out in?
There have been a few severe squalls this year on the bay. They came fast were unexpected really not on the weather forecast. It ripped boats from the docks and moorings, damage some really bad. Think of all that could go wrong out there then pile the dog on top of that.
Been on the Great South Bay over 50 years. No joke out there at times. Not very deep but I have seen 4-5’ breaking waves with fast succession or short period as they say.
Even with a young strong PFD on dog that’s a swimmer I’d be very careful. Take your dig to Connetquot River few small islands there at the mouth much safer.
Most people use when water drops to between 60 and 70 F as where you want to start wearing thermal protection (wet suit, dry suit, etc.) in case of a swim. Below 50 and most are saying a dry suit is the only way to go.
Thanks for weighing in PaddleDog52. Your comments on how conditions can change there match my recall, but it has been a bunch of years since I spent time down that way.
You sound like you’re in big water. We’ve taken the 75# retriever out in a Ocean Kayak 12ft , Tetra, but is is less than 24" beam. Quriser can average 3.5 mph in it. but she always wants a work out. We’ve had him 1 mile out on the 3.5 mile wide river…and he got up cause I was teasing him and we had dog and woman in the water. Ever done assisted rescues with a big dog? Just throw a retriever’s toy in the boat and he goes there.
This just don’t work. Those little 7ft kids kayaks don’t track well and the dog will not paddle.
When I take him out I use a canoe. Solo or tandem it works better when , after an hour, he gets up turns around and PLOPS down. Usually to one side or the other. Paris is the right size dog for a kayak.
PS…I don’t know where you kayak but round here we have gators. We limit the dog to more people populated areas. Hence less probably of gator presence.
I kayak with my 72# pitbull in a stable river kayak. He rides in front of me where the large cockpit area allows for both of us. The river kayak is wide and stable , even when he moves or even turns around sometimes.
He always has dog lifevest on, as once he jumped out in lily pads thinking we were on land and the lifevest quickly pop him back up and allowed me to grab the handle and put him back in.
