Thoughts on Kayak transport Speeds
I am going to Lake Powell nxt week ( 8 hr drive) and want to know best tie downs and experiences per long distance roof top kayak transport
Have a 10 yr old Pungo 140 (14ft)
Yesterday did a 4 hour drive thru varying conditions in CO mostly rain and a couple huge thunderstorms .
Speeds were less than 50-60mph in rain rush hour traffic
with an occasional 70 mph on onterstate when it cleared I was testing that speed to see how kayak was etc.
Have J racks on Jeep Cherokee but due to the Cargo pod on pass side the rails arent very wide apart <4 ft
Do I have to add a 3 rd rail for better secure tie down ?
The straps are set on each end side of the cockpit She rides really good and didnt notice a whole lot of flexing as I drove. -yeah it hangs over the windshield and hood !
Did not do a bow and stern tie down.
We took a few good gusts in the T-storms pushing the car a bit
When I took the Kakak off this morning she had a slight curve sideways ( starboard) bow to stern.
Kinda strange as its racked port side down and the overall curve I see is upwards ( to the starboard) like the wind was lifting it on each end
I come from the old Alum Grumman canoe era so plastic is a diff world to me being new to Roto kayaks
She is sitting hull up in the sun right now and actually looks a little better per straight line.
Your thoughts ?
For highway speeds (and in my case all speeds) bow and stern lines are mandatory. It takes less than 5 minutes to hook them up so why not?
I’ve driven from South Carolina to Nova Scotia more than a few times on I95 all the way at the legal limit (or maybe a smidge above!) with two kayaks on the roof of my Santa Fe. Never had an issue.
For long distance and high speed carrying, safer to carry it upside down flat on the roof rack with bow and stern lines connected to bumpers and/or tie downs under the hood. Also more aerodynamic.
Thanks for the replies. Interesting. I am using 2 Thule J Racks with a pull strap on each It sits on its (port) side, bow forward. I thought it would slice thru the air just fine. Only moved around alittle when hit a big bump or some turbulence. I also put a ratchet diagonally across the top from my front rack rail to the back rack for backup I dont crank too hard on the raatchet which may account for the flex that put that touch of sideways curve in it. Only way I’ll know for sure is get in the water and paddle straight to see. Seems general consensus is to have a Bow and Stern tie down in addition to rack/rail tied downs. I can do hull up no prob since my rails are pretty wide, Still wonder which orientation hull up or down or set in J Rack for long distance . Looking for the least amount of resistance /lift.
No matter what a wide boat like the Pungo and Jbars will result in a more noticeable response to the wind than if the boat was flat on its deck or its hull. Which side the cockpit faces probably only matters if you can predict the direction of the wind for the trip.
One of the things that people here do to reduce the push is use a cockpit cover for traveling. But the cockpit of the Pungo is so big, in real wind nothing would stay put. Most of the people who do that regularly are like myself, carrying kayaks with smaller cockpits.
Probable the best thing you can do given the need for Jbars is to use bow and stern lines that exert pressure to pull the Pungo against the taller side of the Jbars. So for ex if the boat is sitting over the passenger side, try to run the bow line to a spot under the hood on the driver’s side. That will produce a strong sideways pull. Yeah it crosses the line in front of your driving vision. I go to Maine a couple of rounds each years traveling like this, a several hour trip, and it doesn’t bother my driving. You get used to it.
It is a little harder to find such a direct angle in the stern, but same principle applies.
@sturoc said:
Thanks for the replies. Interesting. I am using 2 Thule J Racks with a pull strap on each It sits on its (port) side, bow forward. I thought it would slice thru the air just fine. Only moved around alittle when hit a big bump or some turbulence. I also put a ratchet diagonally across the top from my front rack rail to the back rack for backup I dont crank too hard on the raatchet which may account for the flex that put that touch of sideways curve in it. Only way I’ll know for sure is get in the water and paddle straight to see. Seems general consensus is to have a Bow and Stern tie down in addition to rack/rail tied downs. I can do hull up no prob since my rails are pretty wide, Still wonder which orientation hull up or down or set in J Rack for long distance . Looking for the least amount of resistance /lift.
Aerodynamically speaking, symmetrical is better. The hood of the car forces the oncoming air flow up the windshield and into the boat and you want the hull to smoothly divide the flow as it goes by. J-racks hold the hull in such a way that it presents a non-symmetrical blockage to the flow. The air responds by flowing unevenly around the hull, which will cause unwanted lateral forces.
I used J-racks briefly but the asymmetry of the setup and the high lateral windage resulted in a lot of car movement in traffic and cross-winds. Then the J-racks and a boat got blown flat by a crosswind on a bridge. It all stayed attached to the car, but the J-racks were history.
Hull-up or hull-down depends on the rack style and rake of the roof. Willowleaf’s SOF hull-up on crossbars pictured above is a good arrangement, particularly since the roof slopes downward to the rear. If mounted hull-down, the bow would stick way up. Hull-up will generate some bow uplift due to the flat foredeck, but not a problem if you use good bow tie-downs as she does.
I have a V-bar setup which carries boats hull-down, which works well since the roof is flat. The hull tends to divide the air flow the same as it does in the water, which is desirable. In fact, there is barely a noticeable difference when there are boats on the roof, which may be hard to believe but true. I do notice a little more lean while cornering due to the weight on the roof, but that will be true of any setup. Occasionally I remember to corner at lower speeds.
Note the big difference in lateral windage between the blue QCC on my Mini vs the yellow sea kayak on J-racks.
I have been concerned that the single bow line tie-down does very little to prohibit the effect of lateral wind forces. It does help with uplift, but I like to triangulate the bow bracing. Modern cars, and trucks, often have little to tie to near the bumper level, so I use the nifty tie-down loops anchored to about a five inch piece of soft, but stiff, PVC tubing. They slip nicely through the hood opening. Open the hood, slip them in, close the hood, and there are two tie-off locations about 3/4 of the way forward on my 4Runner hood. Pop them out when returning.
@pbenter said:
Modern cars, and trucks, often have little to tie to near the bumper level, so I use the nifty tie-down loops anchored to about a five inch piece of soft, but stiff, PVC tubing. They slip nicely through the hood opening. Open the hood, slip them in, close the hood, and there are two tie-off locations about 3/4 of the way forward on my 4Runner hood. Pop them out when returning.
You can almost always find someplace under the hood to tie off some paracord.
I have a pair of J racks gathering dust. None of my boats would settle into them, so I just use them when a third person comes along for a paddle. I would not dare use them on the interstate.
If you are only carrying the one boat, take them off and tie that Pungo hull up, it is safer, Also , at least, use a bow line, maybe two of them, one to each fender. That will cut down on the wind shear.
The Pungo has a pretty defined keel and chines it so Hull down would not sit flat on rails. I’d have to do some extensive padding. Main concern is not so much wind pushing the vehicle with it on but any warping etc the kayak would see in traveling interstates
I’ve carried Pungos for hundreds of miles in cradles and never warped one. You mentioned a rachet strap earlier. I hope you don’t use those on your boat. It is far too easy to crush a boat with those.
I’ve used cam straps(NRS) for years and never damaged a boat including ones made of carbon fiber and Kevlar. And never lost one.
Another advantage of carrying plastic boats hull up is that you avoid oil-canning them on the racks on hot days. If a deck dents it isn’t a big deal for performance. Also, keeps rain from collecting in boats as can happen when they are hauled deck up. And having the cockpit coaming between the crossbars adds another level of security, at least in my mind. And the boat will drain as you drive.
I concur that you should avoid ratchet straps completely when fastening down kayaks. Stick with cam straps and rope.
Copy on the ratchet I would only put a couple clicks on it not crankin crazy and kept an eye on the flex of the coaming as well. More of a backup than anything else. . My cross rails which also support a cargo pod on pass side may need to spread more to clear the coaming This would necessitate drilling new holes in the pod for reposition of its brackets for the wider spread rails…Don’t think that’s a deal breaker though . So consensus is J racks just for short local drives ? But long hauls either use cradles with hull down and cam straps plus bow stern lines. Or option 2 mount kayak hull up on rails with cam straps and bow / stern lines ? and I do appreciate all the replies here !
Update: I tied the Pungo hull up on the Cherokee . Spread my rails so that each is at the front and back edge of coaming rim as Willowleaf suggested. I Noodle padded the rails and she fit in between like a glove. Then used the cam lock straps- one on each rail via the saddle strap method. Bow and stern tie downs as pictured not too tight, not too loose…
First segment of trip was 400 miles across CO, C. Springs to Ouray . As expected the south crosswind was acting up all the way. Pungo remained stable and very aerodynamic in those winds.
2nd segment was Ouray to Page AZ -Lake Powell. Across the San Juan mtns was quiet and down thru the desert winds were variable. I cked straps every couple hours, the sun and winds worked 'em loose slightly but never enough for big concern.
After using the J racks ( convenient and quick to load for short trips) then going to Hull up on padded rails I firmly believe for this type length kayak that hull up is the way to go on long drives.
