Jackl…
You seem to have paddled quite a bit, but on the flip side, there seems to be a number of things I’ve noticed over time that you comment on that are serious safety issues and telling someone (again–seen you say it before) to use a towline without a quick release that can be released easily at least within reach from the cockpit (while potentially upsidedown and still needing to roll up after the release) is a serious safety issue. Your giving out advice that routinely shows your lack of training. Obviously, the op and friend had no business being where they were, but let’s at least trying to point them in the right direction, as painful and humbling as that might be for them…we’ve all been there. It’s how you react to the lesson that counts.
The one you are describing was about
a four footer. The one that surfed me backwards for about 50 feet was about a 5 footer.
20’ is too short on the West Coast
You need a line that is at least twice the wave length. That will keep the towed boat from surfing into the boat that is towing.
Typical tow lines on the West Coast are about 45 feet long and I’ve seen some times where we needed to put two tow lines together because one was too short.
that’s why I said painter
Remember it is not only the height
it is also the period or the time in seconds between the crests of the waves—some of the roughest seas I’ve been in were only 2-3 feet but the period was about 2 seconds.
You evidently didn’t read my post
or read into it what you wanted to.
I said "We used 20 feet of line to tow the guy".
No where did I mention a "Tow line'
I probably should have called it a painter since that is what it has always been used for.
If I carried all the junk including a "tow belt" that the safety gurus recommend, there would be no room on my boat for My PB & J sandwich, and then I would starve to death!
I guess when I said; "I can't imagine going out in 8 foot waves" is giving out bad advice too.
No I have never have had any "safety training' as far as paddling goes, and I have never claimed to be an expert, and never will.
Common sense tells me what is safe and what isn't.
If you feel I am giving out bad advice then your best bet is just don't read my advice, comments or suggestions.
I paddle for the joy of paddling, exploring and racing, and try to pass along comments that others might learn from.
They can ignor them or possibly learn a bit from them. That is there choice.
I also have no qualms of posting my profile here so people can see who is posting, and possibly make a judgement weather to heed my comments or ingore them.
Cheers,
JackL
come on JackL…
in the post you are referring to you implied that it was a ‘tow line’. Granted you didn’t use the phrase ‘tow line’, but you did say it was a ‘line to tow’. At that point, when you use a line for tow, it probably becomes a tow line.
I have seen a lot of rationale that I don’t agree with, so I won’t bust on you for carrying a line to tow with, rather than a tow line.
But I will say that if you can’t find a way to wear a tow belt that doesn’t interfere with your PB & J you need to keep working on the issue. The only reason I could see them interfering with each other is if you had a tow belt and carried your PB & J in a hip pack. Which you might, but it can’t be that difficult to relocate your sandwich can it?
Oh, and it is pretty easy to use a tow belt as a way to tie your kayak to dock, tree, or whatever as well.
All’s well that end’s well
You can tow another kayak safely with a rope. You would want to tie a large loop that you can easily pull over yourself in case you have to release it. Never a cinching knot. You would put it over yourself and pull from the waist. Naturally a tow belt is best.
You did not say what type of boats. If you are paddling rec style boats with no bulkheads, it can be very tough to empty at sea because of the weight. Even a regular kayak with bulkheads can be tough to empty if you don’t have the paddling skills. So first you would have to empty the kayak and then tie on the rope. Fortunately the life guards were there and you did the right thing not going back out. There is no kayaker in the world that hasn’t got beyond their ability in big conditions at one time or another.
Never
Tie a tow rope around your waist. You are the rescuer this method puts you at risk quick release or not. You should use your coming or have a cow tail on the stern of your boat and leave it there this way it is always ready and you need not “exit” your boat.
I agree about the periods, when it’s
fast, it’s hard. When it’s long the beach break hits hard. My comment to him was about estimation as a bench mark. It’s a good idea to count the period in seconds as well as try to count in between sets if any distinctions can be made.
Dogmaticus
rope tricks
The poster is not going for his BCU 5 star. A rope loop does not want to stay around a coaming because of the slant. One tinyÊwave and it's around your waist. Sometimes a paddler is out with a friend who hurts his shoulder and needs a tow. You can cannibalize the boats and use deck lines to make a tow rig. A huge 4 ft diameter fixed loop works fine and is easily released. I have used it and so have others. All this talk about the science of towing is fine for the depth of paddling information but some paddlers just want to know what can I do in an emergency and not how to pass their 5 star BCU or ACA coach test or rig their boat for guide service. There's thousands of paddlers who will never own a tow rig of any type and if theyÊcarry a line they can tow someone if needed with a few practical rules.
One of the biggest use of towing is not all the hard core paddlers, but adults who have children in kayaks with them and most of the time, they just run out of steam.
Would it be safer to wear this…
…‘emergency’ tow rope bandolier style, diagonally across the chest so that it would be easier to get it off if the need suddenly arose?
This board sometimes reminds me …
… of one of those nature documentaries. You know the ones, where the hyenas circle for ages then one plucks up the courage to finally make a move and then all those that were sitting on the sidelines suddenly go in for the attack.
The post by Jackl above is a good example. He used what he had at hand to help someone out, (I think it’s called improvisation) should he have deserted this guy ? Yet straight away the sniping started.
Is what he had to say that different from what Jaybabina had to say in his post ?
Most people measure
People seem to measure wave height in comparison to their head. If you are 6 foot tall, and they are at eye level, the waves must me 6 feet tall.
but you are sitting down in a kayak, so subtract leg legnth. Yes, dogma, you are right, about one - half.
Yes, their replies are very different.
Jackl suggested an improvised tow system without way to quick release from the cockpit. Jay suggested a system where one had better control of it in terms of releasing yourself from it–a much better, safer solution. Thus, the different responses. Basically for the unsafe system–don’t do it that way. For the system Jay suggested–how can we make it better, was my thought. Clear enough for you pop?
Yep… once again humbled…
... by the experts.
I really must learn to cross my i's and dot my t's.
I guess Jackl should have left the other guy behind.
There is no way I would secure myself to my boat or another boat with a loop of rope around my body, bandolier style or not.
Has anyone talked aboat leaving…
…anybody behind? Maybe I missed it. I didn’t. There are many variations of towing. It’s a good idea to learn a few to find a safe, speedy successful way of dealing with a given situation.
I’ll be the first to say that I’m far from an expert, but I know enough to not reccomend towing from stern to bow. You’re exaggerating and polarizing the discussion while taking away from the important aspects.
How much time have you spent towing or reading up on various towing methods? Towing is a whole ‘chapter’ out of the sea kayaking ‘book’ and all of us would do well to read and practice that chapter. I’ve spent many hours towing with various systems and many times that studying towing. Combined with several years of open ocean sea kayaking experience and with thought processes guided by some of the best coaches available, you tend to learn what’s safe and efficient and what’s not. Let’s hear your safe advice for the op, okay?
Prior to becoming a tug deckhand…
.... I raced sailing skiffs for many years. After many capsizes hooked up to a trapeze wire and harness I know a little about being caught up in rigging. Now I don't know if I've read as many books as you but I know a little about towing and the risks of wrapping ropes around yourself.
You ask, "How much time have you spent towing or reading up on various towing methods?".... I lived it... taught by a father who had 51 years experience as a tug skipper.
I carry 15m of spectra with a section of shockcord, have a fairlead central behind the cockpit and a jam cleat just behind my left hip. Simple and works and cheap.
Doesn't interfere with the rudder... it's on a Mirage.
Thanks
not for your post in my defense, but reading the content of my message and taking it for what is was worth.
cheers,
JackL
It’s not hard… but apparently…
… I have a lot of reading to catch up on, so this will be my last post on this subject or any other.