Kayak VS Canoe for touring...

Alright canoe-heads im a kayaker looking at this with an open mind so if youre ever gonna have a chance to convert me this is it :)

Im starting to shop for a new boat and am wondering about the pros and cons of each type of boat.

This boat will be used to train for and compete in the MR340 this year. it will be paddled on the MoRiv and its larger tributaries. I want something fast obviously, but im not so serious about speed im read to step up to a fancy surfski.

The kayaks im considering are the qcc700x and the edyline falcon 18.

As for canoes ive been eyeing are the Wenonah Voyager and the Sawyer Shockwave.

So you are a Corvette man looking for

– Last Updated: Jan-19-10 1:27 PM EST –

a truck, station wagon, van, SUV.

The only thing QCC and Wenonah have in common is that their boats float.

You can't go backwards so buy the QCC and enjoy the race.

Comfort and portaging favor the canoe
Rough water and deep water rescues are easier in a kayak.

If you don’t have to portage much and you are comfortable all day in a kayak day afer day then a kayak might be faster. I hear that long distance performance is more related to comfort in the boat than you might think.

If you have few or no portages and
want more command of open water, touring kayaks will suit. While I would prefer canoes for most of the rivers I run, your canoe choices lack the turning ability I want. Sounds like they would be good candidates for what you do, though.

Are there class divisions?
I was hooked by the need for “touring” as stated in your post title, but racing is a whole other thing. If there are different classes for different boats, it makes no real difference, espcially since you probably won’t bother learning corrective strokes, which takes a couple of years to get reasonably comfortable doing (not that sit-and-switch paddling is entirely “easy”). If it’a an open race with no class divisions, stick with what you know, since you might need a racing canoe (big learning curve) to keep up with a fast kayak.

no class divisions
its just overall solo/tandem/team. I say touring because most of my day trips are 20miles in my current el crappo rec boat, and once I get a proper boat that covers some distance Im sure my day trips would get longer. I also do alot of kayak camping.

Sounds like its still kayak for me lol
I have no prob parking my butt in my slow heavy rec boat for long periods. Ive done many 30 mile days and several 40s and 50s :slight_smile:

so now that we are back to talking kayaks… Rudder VS Skeg??

im guessing a rudder would make the boat more ‘turnable’ on the tighter ozark streams i frequent? 80%of my paddling are rivers similar to the Meramec and Big river (st louis area)

is an 18’ boat turnable? or is it just a straight line machine? I wonder if I should give up some speed (how much?) by going with a 16’ yak rather than 18’

Straight fro’ de 717 Club’s…
TV preacher’s mouth…

'yakers “swore a pact to the devil” in order to become free of calloused knees, but dem’s then got mildew butt.

Go wit de canoo, Pilgrim.


thanks elmo
any distance paddling id do in a canoe would prolly be seated not kneeling. ive been hard on these knees no way id be long term comfortable like that.

Distance kayaking
This year I’m signed up for the MR340, and last year I did the Water Tribe Everglades Challenge and the North Carolina Challenge. For distance kayaking your fit in the cockpit and the comfort and fit of the seat are very important. I believe that they are more important than how fast the boat is.

Here comes the monkey wrench
I haven’t paddled or even SEEN this beast and don’t know if its in production but you might have the best of both worlds in a pack canoe.

The Placid Boatworks Shadow is 16 feet long and 22 inches wide. L/W ratio of 8.5:1. Yet it has ample rocker for maneuverability.

As far as I know that blasts Wenonah Racing away…but am open to corrections on that one.

The Savage River racing boats are interesting too.

dont discount comfort
No doubt the kayak may be faster but no doubt if you look at the mr340 track record single blade boats are well represented in top spots. It depends on how you want to spend those 40 to 80 hours. The MR340 is not justa race it is a nonstop race and I know for myself the discomfort factor was as large an impediment as the miles. You can be locked into a semi recline or in a more open boat that you can move about some. Theres a reason many marathoners and 340’ers and TWS’ers paddle open boats.

that is a sweet boat kayakmedic
but way outta my price range. I know I can find any of the boats ive listed gently used for about $1500

comfort and single blade
in pretty comfortable in my kayak… but ive never done 340 nonstop.

And i see alot of these races single blading a kayak.

Im sure id be double blade in a canoe alot of the time anyway.

being scientific
It is the waterline length that matters, not the overall length, as WLL is directly associated with the max speed. Of course, there are way more factors than simple waterline length

Now if the purpose were to paddle multiday race, consider:

  1. What is average speed over water? Notice, not the overall average paddling speed over land.
  2. Choose the kayak with the lowest hull resistance at that speed

    Here is some example of stats http://www.unold.dk/paddling/articles/kayakstatistics.html

The Voyager is aa very fast, big
water canoe but it does not turn like a kayak with a rudder. It is a really comfortable boat but a beast in a quarterting wind unless you put a cover on it. many kayakers have paddled mine and it usually spooks them because it feels very tippy until you have some seat time.

im sold

– Last Updated: Jan-19-10 4:35 PM EST –

im a kayaker. Suits my needs better methinks

canoeing looks like alot of fun, but Ill wait until I get a fun to paddle pack type canoe for camping and day trips.

so now that we are back to talking kayaks... Rudder VS Skeg??

im guessing a rudder would make the boat more 'turnable' on the tighter ozark streams i frequent? 80%of my paddling are rivers similar to the Meramec and Big river (st louis area)

is an 18' boat turnable? or is it just a straight line machine? I wonder if I should give up some speed (how much?) by going with a 16' yak rather than 18'

rudders are not meant to turn
edging your boat does. I will leave that to the kayakers to determine which boat.

I edge my CD Caribou to help it spin.

to clarify some
my most common paddles are long stretches of flat water, with a radpid or logjam every so often requiring some maneuvering.

im not sure if thats possible in such a long boat, or if I should be thinking about more maneuverable 16’ boats.

how much faster is a 2’ on identical boats… ie qcc500 and qcc700?

The 700 vs 500
well I haven’t paddled a 500 but i have paddled a 700. If emphasis is on your all around paddling more than the race go with the 500 as it may be a tad better on the smaller water you mention and it has a reputation as being more comfortable for bigger folks. However the 700’s have always done well in the MR340 and there is not alot of turning required for the race. Was me I would go with the 700 just because it is a tad sportier and should be fine on most streams with the exception of frisky semi ww stuff but you wouldn’t want to be in either of those boats if you are doing frisky ww stuff anyway…