Did you read it? It’s about water
and how you can’t breathe under it. you’ll catch on. The article on cold shock was to help you understand that without a pfd if you capsize it is very possible your head could never make the surface again. It doesn’t matter if you are in a motorboat or a canoe or kayak. It doesn’t matter if you are 17 or 70. Navy seal or couch potatoe. The gasp reflex makes the body inhale water into the lungs. At least with a pfd, you could come up and choke out the water. Beats sinking. I think it is why a lot of people take the whole pfd thing kind of seriously. Duh!
I am sure you could look up Critical Judgement if you want. but here it is anyway. http://www.americancanoe.org/PDF/CJ2.pdf It doesn’t sound like twisted facts or manipulated data. It’s raw coast gaurd data about who dies on the water.
I could care less if you wear a pfd. It’s your call to make. Just hate to see some kid read how you dont wear one and think they are for pussies or knuckleheads up north that dont know what they are talking about.
ditto on the last sentence Scott
Using message boards to jerk chains is fine. But, don’t expect everyone to understand that’s what’s going on. Guys like Charlie Walbridge have helped to create a PFD ethic in paddling. They’ve done a hell of a lot more for paddling, paddlers and self-regulation than pissy posters on pnet.
more on
"you’re on" and I’m a “more on” for attempting to join in on this silly little exercise, but I need a little comic relief.
Our local surf skier does not have a positive prognosis after being in the water for 3 hrs WITH pfd and drysuit…still in critical condition since Thursday pm.
my thoughts are up there
I paddled up there back in May at Ski2Sea and met some of the ski crowd. My heart goes out. It’s beautiful up there but that cold water is scary stuff.
Will that make you JackL Dork
I like G_K Dork or G_K Dorkie…sounds sexy
Here comes the Dorkies.
I think the longest I’ve ever had a PFD on may be an hour. Nah, I don’t think I’ve had one on that long.
What to say…
Our friend is no longer with us. I’m sorry but I simply don’t have the words…
To paddlers everywhere who may have been concerned, our paddling community thanks you for your thoughts, prayers, and support. Our Saturday morning surf ski group met at the put-in, shared tears, hugs, and a long paddle and again realized how much of a family our paddling community really is.
Warmth to you all, and take a big moment amidst the hectic up coming holiday to stop and smell the roses, count your blessings, and tell your loved ones how much you care.
thanks sternsquirt
Good words. My condolences to you, the group, and the surviving family.
Sorry…
For those who knew him and his family. Lousy thing at a rotten time of year.
Thank You.
I have some experience with this matter. ( too much )
I instructed CPR and First Aid for years, I keep up a Wilderness First Aid certificate, guide and teach kayaking.
From direct experience recognizing a heart attack and dealing with it is paramount.
We however are rarely close to EMS when we paddle. Hell some times we are a fair way from the nearest road.
Recognizing symptoms, slowing down, and dealing with the problem before cardiac arrest is the only way I can think of that allows survival.
Many people had undiagnosed heart attacks and survive just fine.
Stomach upset in our case was masked by a flu as was muscle pain. Chest pain is normal when you paddle 70 + KM in 3 days in rancid weather.
Muscle pain inside the left arm where there is no muscle was tell tail. then radiating pain to the shoulder and back. The jaw pain focused things.
10 KM away from the road with no likely extraction that day makes options simple.
The last part of the trip was with the wind and symptoms settled down.
I only performed two rescues on the way back and did not imitate a border collie for the remainder of the trip.
A week later ( I ) got out of hospital and took in an instructors clinic ( Very carefully ) three days later I paddled most of the way around Bell Island in poor conditions. The hike out of there dammed near killed me.
The people I was with were not comfortable with sea state and wind was to be a problem soon enough.
If you know what you are looking for and can deal with it you can survive. I guess I am one in three.
I still paddle, sometimes in remote places and sometimes alone. (always with a PFD)
It happens.
I can’t think of many people that are safer company on a trip than me.
It was a rediculous stay in hospital. I am not the average HA case. 180 - 185 lbs. 49 years old in good shape by their standards. I walked in after making sure the car was parked propperly. I thought it was a bad flu but the symptoms were the recipe for what it realy was.
My wife was with me all through this and she only knew I was ill when I passed her the keys and said lets go to the hospital.
Life goes on.
Alex
What if you can’t get to your PFD to put
it on? Haven’t you ever been separated from your boat (where the PFD is stored)?
Jack, you must not paddle fast rivers
with underwater snags. If you did, you would know that getting your feet trapped, even in water only three feet deep, can still result in your head being pulled under in strong currents if you don't have a PFD on (strong enough currents may still pull you under even with your PFD on) or someone to hold your head up until you are freed.
You said "3. absolutely stupid to wear one in water that is no more than three feet deep, such as a shallow river."
Absolutely the worst thing to hear.
No words come to me, except to offer condolences. 'Very sorry to hear of your loss.
Deepest condolences…
Another loss to the paddling community.
My prayers are with the paddlers friends and family.
James.
Not yet…
... at least so far - and if I were in wind or seas where separation is possible (doesn't take much) and would be a problem (offshore wind/current or good distance out) I'd most likely be wearing my PFD.
You folks might as well give up on making all these "what if" scenarios trying to find some slam dunk example. It doesn't exist. Even G_K has said he WOULD wear one in certain conditions. That's not the issue. NO ONE is saying DON'T wear one EVER - so please stop making arguments as if they were. Doing so only makes you look - - now what was that word JackL used? - - oh yeah: Stupid.
PS - Here's another silly stoke of the flames or muddying of the waters: Being without a PFD is more dangerous in fresh water. Plug that into the PFD-less fatalities numbers. How many salt vs. how many fresh deaths? Think salt water tends to be more textured and that equals it out? Maybe so, but most of the deaths seem to be on calm water too. Maybe we should just mandate PFDs for flat and fresh water paddling? Most drownings (all - not paddling) are in quite shallow water. Maybe add shallow water to the mandate? Getting stupid enough for you folks yet?
You forgot bath tubs.
Fast enough for you ?
[http://thumb10.webshots.net/t/63/63/5/71/3/502557103dxLaCP_th.jpg](http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1502557103049732290dxLaCP)
Just entering a class III (some called it a IV)-the next hundred yards was continuous big drops.
It’s a seventeen foot poly sea kayak.
Note the PFD !
Also note -no helmut!
That could have been a costly mistake, but I had driven four hours to get to the race and didn’t realize that the river would require one, so I left it at home.
If you are going to worry about a snag pulling you underwater in a three foot deep river, that is not a raging WW river, then you should wear body armor when you walk across a street.
There is a “qualifier” for every statement that is made on P-net. Seems to me you are looking for that microscopic qualifier, so if you are happier wearing your PFD in a calm, slow flowing river with no sink holes, no mud sucking bottom and no lightning storms predicted on a 100 degree day, then be my guest.
Cheers,
JackL
So WHAT HAPPENED
This thread is full of respectful sympathies and condolances but was posted to see if there was any lesson to be learned.
What happened?
in time…
"We have been reserved in discussing the details out of respect for his loss to his family, the community and certain of our members. Many are still struggling to process his loss. Thank you all for being sensitive. It is known that there is no hint of neglect or malice in the sad events."-WPaddlers
The details are still being sorted out, as are the lessons learned.
Sufficient answer