As I said
This discussion is specified “cold water” hypothermia. I really like the power boat picture.
The ACA likes to manipulate the figures to suit their needs and as I said earlier just because some dies using a canoe or kayak doesn’t make them a canoist ar kayaker.
Doesn’t take me a while.
You are evidently a poor swimmer and can’t tread water.
Back in my old Navy Days that is one of the things we had to train for.
Now each year I set aside one day for self rescue and putting the PFD on in rough water.
We wait for a rough day to practice it since we want to similate real conditions.
Isn’t it about time you quit?
I don’t go around telling everyone they should always wear a PFD, and you shouldn’t either - Unless they can’t swim, in which case we can both tell them together.
Your turn,
cheers,
JackL
CPR on the water …kayak …Please
give me a break!
Not impossible but highly unlikely and definitely not worth debating.
oh Richard
I am sure there are plenty of people on this site who will argue with that “not worth debating” comment. 
oh Daggermat
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 12:01 AM EST –
there are people on this forum who would debate anything I say.
... if some 300# person is out paddling with me and has a heart attack then he/she is probably gonna die but I'll still do my best to save them.
Most people have not had to move an unconscious person and it would be a struggle to a conscious person on the bow of the kayak and impossible (?) for 1 person. This would take 2 good paddlers and seconds are crucial.
...now don't you think there are a lot better topics to discuss?
last time
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 1:17 AM EST –
I don't tell them--unless of course they are my clients that I'm paid to guide-I figure its their own business--I also don't tell people not to smoke, or wear seatbelts or do any other of a number of things that are probably good for them---I'm not their mother, nor am I yours---
I've seen lots of people who get into rec boats and go paddling around without life jackets---occasionally I see some one of a higher skill level do the same-they are the ones who should know better--
one final note--there have been two drownings on Maine lakes in the past week---one a small row boat and the other a canoe---neither victim was wearing a pfd---in the case of the boat, three of the four passengers who lived had their life jackets on---the fourth the father of the three sons didn't but was strong enough to make it to shore--the grandfather drowned 120 feet from the beach--his tough luck---tell his family he didn't have to wear a pfd-- I'm sure he thought exactly the way you do--"I'm only going out in a small lake not far from shore." He probably thought he was a strong swimmer also
---I understand you don't want to wear one because you think it looks dorky----me, I would rather look like a dork then a corpse--Nothing more to say---we are obviously steering by different charts.- Have a great day
got to agree with the GK
trying to raft up and get an unconscious person on a raft of kayaks would be quite a feat and like the poster above says, the problem is doing the compressions—it would be almost impossible with just one kayak–I’ve thought about this a lot and have discussed it with others I paddle with(except for two of us, we are all over 50 and one or two over 60—a coronary prone bunch) Doing it in the water even harder
The consensus is establish a contact tow with the stricken paddler and get to the nearest land asap—assuming you are with 5–10 minutes of shore–I suppose if you are 2-3 miles out you would have to try the rafting bit but like the fellow says it would be dicey- In most cases getting to shore and starting cpr would be the best choice
ps–with a 300+lbs paddler it would be very hard
its not so much the rescue breathing
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 12:16 AM EST –
that is really hard to do in the water--that's relativly easy--its the compressions
yes I've practiced using a defibraltor--but carrying one in a kayak just really isn't very practical---good idea but somehow I can't picture the owners of the guides services here in Maine ponying up the 2000 dollars(I think that's the price) each to buy enough of them so every guided trip has one.
Heart Attack vs Cardiac Arrest
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 12:19 AM EST –
A heart attack occurs when there is a blockage in the hearts arteries impeding blood flow to the heart muscle. Cardiac arrest is when the heart stops beating and can be the result of a heart attack. People survive heart attack all the time by getting to EMS before a cardiac arrest. Symptoms can range from crushing chest pain radiating to the arms and legs or even feel like indegestion. Best key to survival is recognizing something is wrong, stop exertion and call 911. If the heart stops beating, cpr is only a bridge to getting electricity (defibrilation) to stop the heart from quivering ( ventricular fibrulation). CPR prolongs the state of the heart quivering which keeps it in a state to be shocked into a life sustaining rhythm and 4-6 minutes is the golden window. After 10 minutes, it is very likely too late. CPR in a kayak is not going be effective and basically futile. Recognize symptoms and call for help.
I am an RN with Intensive Care Unit and Emergency Room experience.
ps man of action
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 12:35 AM EST –
I reread your post Richard--the man of action comment doesn't piss me off--
it does make me laugh a bit coming from someone who does all of their paddling on flat, calm warm inland rivers-I suspect that my paddling is generally done in much much more extreme conditons than a class 1 Georgia river---high winds, large waves, thick fog, and really cold water(55 degrees in August 40 degrees last monday)are par for the course up here and every time I guide I have to make decisions that effect other people's safety---after all they don't pay me to take them out and drown them
I've been paddling for over 30 years, sea kayaking for 7 and guiding now for three seasons and so far I haven't lost a client--and I don't intend to---
if you would like to see what it is to paddle in real conditions,and to see what kind of paddler I am, you have a standing invitation to come to Maine and go paddling with me as my guest. You don't even have to wear a pfd if you don't want to.
off topic message to MrTee
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 1:08 AM EST –
this topic has just about exhausted itself---usually I don't post at all let alone 6-12 times so I'm going off topic---just curious which company you guide for. I'm with Old Quarry Ocean Adventures out of Stonington and rarely guide clients in the MDI area--- However I do paddle there often for my own pleasure with the MDI Paddlers---George and Ron Greenburg, Bill Wiel etc--do you know them?
I am glad that this is your "last time"
since it appears you are going off the deep end!
The next time I wear my PFD, which will probably be tomorrow, I’ll put a sign on the back of it that says: I am sorry if I look “Dorkey” but Jonsprag1 seems to think so.
On the drownings with people not wearing PFD’s; you need to jump on the fisherman and small outboard guys. Their fatality number will far outnumber the paddlers.
They could use a good advocate like yourself.
Your turn; if you want to keep going.
Cheers,
JackL
Okay…
nothing to add. Just want be #100. 
sing
Boy, we’re getting an early start this year on the usual “winter” topics/discussions/arguments.
jsprag1 - took this offline
I sent you an e-mail
Sing, if I
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 7:43 AM EST –
send a S.A.S.E., can I have your autograph? ;-) Man,number 100....figure this issue must be resolved by now, eh?
Actuaaaaly, I think you're 101...wanna spar...verbally :-0. I think you'd kick my butt physically, don't think poling technique covers me in the ring :-)
Well…
– Last Updated: Nov-18-07 7:48 AM EST –
I'll sign the affadavit that when I drown that you are entitled to post a thread, "Storm Surfin' PNet Fool Dies!" I want it to go to a record 250 plus posts. Everybody can project whatever they want into it so the thread can get to that number and more!
I figure it's the least I can do for my fellow PNetters. :)
sing
PS. I friggin' love the name of the OP, "MakingWaves!" Gotta love it. :)
you’re on
I’ll take that affadavit, and help with my unabashed opinion that it was your insistence of wearing a wetsuit rather than a drysuit that did you in. Then we can get into the drysuit/wetsuit/birthday suit factions; break those down into the farmer john/full sleeve various mm thickness cults, the goretex/triton/dacron/orlon/doubleknit groups, and the naturally dark complexion/pale is better/natural vs. artificial tan segments. If the same happens to me, start off with “he should have been in a kayak” if I was paddling or “what the heck was he doing standing up?” if I was poling. Sorry I’m such a believer in helmet laws, but I bet we could get a few posts over that one too. Don’t mind me,up at 3 this morning, stuck at work 'til 11, thinking about my cl. 3 park and playspot this afternoon. “paddler dies at Satans Kingdom”. That’d generate a few…
You’re On…
generally I would never speak ill of the confused “paddlers” standing up in open boats “poling” (not “paddling”) up rapids… But, since I have your permission…
sing
PS. Ever heard of pole vaulting? Great event. No immersion gear needed. LOL!
no immersion gear needed?
I think nearly every poler I know, except Riverstrider, has pole vaulted at least once :-). Strider swears he’s never vaulted, but has “stuck the landing” more than once, from what he’s told me… lol
nope