Maybe the Indians came back…
and saw the guy trying to steal their arrowheads and they sent their attack gators to eat his PFD.
I’m pretty sure we’re getting to the truth here…
Jim
Hot days in Maine…
… are a lot different than hot days in the South. Ever try to roll to cool off in 90 degree water and near 100% humidity? Good luck with that, or even keeping a spray skirt sealed for long.
I wear mine most of the time - and if I paddled where you do I probably would all the time, but as JackL said - telling everyone everywhere that they need to all the time is stupid.
A large percentage of these “Paddling” deaths are heart attacks, strokes, alcohol related drownings, etc. If PFDs came equipped with automatic defibrillators, stroke response kits, and breathalysers that lock people out of their cockpits - this so called PFD debate might have something fresh and relevant to discuss. Lets hope we stick to things as they are.
When it’s time to go…it’s time to go
and it won’t matter if you’re in the hospital. Not everyone who goes to the hospital lives.
For every minute you live…you are challenging death so live on the wild side while you can, it’s much more exciting. I think being dead is going to get boring really quick.
ever try to
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put a pfd on while in rough water(waves over three feet) or after you have gone into the water?---I have---takes a while--you ought to try it sometime just as an excersize---not in the pool but on the ocean(or whatever body of water you paddle in) And in rough conditions--those are the kind that you are likly to capsize in
I’m
a Registered Maine Sea Kayaking Guide and as part of that process we have to be certified in CPR—my fear is that one of my clients will have a heart attack while paddling—I can’t think of any way to give him CPR on the water—the best I could do would be establish a contact tow(to keep him and the boat upright) and get to the nearest shore ASAP.
This hasn’t happened to me yet (I’m knocking on wood as I type this) but I know of a case out of Bar Harbor where a middle aged 300+ lbs man had a heart attack—he then capsized his boat, the guides where able to get him out of the boat by going into the water but couldn’t get him back into it. They called for help on thier VHFs–a large motorboat with a swimmers platform on the stern was able to get him out of the water but he died before he could get to the hospital.
His survivors filed a law suit and a settlement was made—don’t know how much—so the bottom line here is that if you do have an HA get to shore quick it’s probably the only way you have a chance of survival.
PFDs make you more likely to suffer
– Last Updated: Nov-17-07 11:11 AM EST –
... with alzheimers and dementia.
Eventually, I'm taking mine off too.
If you are looking for an argument
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you can do so with every safety issue. You can argue either side so chosing one situation is ridiculous. Spend your energy paddling and save the preaching for the pulpit. Do for yourself what you believe is safe and have fun...just don't push you personal preferences off on others. Those who pose the, "if I have to save your ass" excuse is a lame cowardly response and I seriously doubt they are very good at rescuing because one who is would do so regardless and not say anything.
What is your real problem?
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You gotta be young.
Are you afraid of having someone die in your presence or afraid of a law suit? Being a guide doesn't make you a GOD so I'm wondering why you chose to be a guide.
Welcome to the real world. Realize that you can't cover your ass completely so do the best you can and paddle on.
You always use an example which explains your point but I think you are trying to find all of the answers. This is good but every situation is different and you can only do so much. I'd really like to see how good you are responding to a real life situation because from your responses I wouldn't want you on my team. This probably pisses you off but your questions and statements haven't convinced me you are a man of action on the water. I hope I'm wrong.
85% paddler deaths=no pfd
Most paddling deaths are canoeist that are drinking and fishing on cold water.
I think I read somewhere in an ACA report (Critical Judgement ot something like that) that almost all paddlers that drown are not wearing pfd. 85%. It seems likely that 8 out of every 10 paddling deaths could be prevented with the use of a pfd.
Some interesting reading about the most common ways to die paddling: http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/coldwater.html
CPR in water
Yes, it would be difficult if not impossible to commence CPR in the water. Frankly, you’d risk further danger to yourself and the victim. You can, and should practice! commencing rescue breathing in the water. Keep the airway open and know how to do it in deep water before any of that happens. I know the average BLS course does NOT teach this skill however, some of your courses for guiding may have. If not, I seriously encourage you to have some one instruct you in rescue breathing in deep, moving water. It is difficult, but doable. I have to say that having flotation on the victim would make this much more doable than without but you could get around this with a paddle float, using your own PFD, etc. That said, the truth of the matter is that heart attacks can kill people. Having one in your recliner or a hospital, you can go either way. Yes, you have a better shot with medical attention right there but it’s not 100%. If you are truly concerned based on the other incident, health condition of your participants, etc you could consider a portable defibrilator. They have come down considerably in cost and if you have CPR, I am sure you’ve atleast practiced with one. You’d need to be out of the water for that as well and have the victim as dried as feasible. But even the defibrilator will look for V-Fib and will not always shock leaving you with CPR and a call for help.
Bar Harbor Incident
Yoicks - do you know if it was the folks at Aquaterra?
Celia . . .
It was not Aquaterra although one of the guides from Aquaterra was part of the rescue effort. That particular guide is one of the best of the best in my book . . . this incident happened close in to the Porcupines.
Not doubting the guide
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At all. Some risks can't be entirely avoided...
That’s the way to do it
if you want a quick death
Rafting?
If you rafted together several kayaks, could you form a platform wide and stable enough for CPR? Of course, you couldn’t really move like that so you’d have to wait for help to transport the person to the hospital.
read
my posts—I really don’t care whether or not people wear pfds----and I certainly would oppose any law requiring people to do so—whether you do or not is, and should remain, up to you.
That said I personally feel there is no good reason for not wearing one–and like I also said above the people I normally see without one tend to be inexperienced paddlers in rec type kayaks on slow moving rivers and/or ponds—I suppose they are the types of people who are least likly to need a pfd–they are after all not in extreme conditions.
Finally I am in the guiding business. I take people out on trips and if they go over not only would I rescue them, I am legally obligated to. And I am also legally obligated to make sure my clients are wearing a pfd—if they aren’t and something happens to them–ie they drown–the it is my ass that gets sued by their families—regardless of whether or not they made the choice not to wear the pfd. Obviously I would also help somebody I wasn’t guiding if the occasion presents itself whether they are wearing a pfd or not.—I would just find it easier to help them if they were wearing a pfd—much less likly for them to panic.
might try
those new inflatable pfds–just a tube that hangs around your neck—not hot and don’t look as dorky as a regular one(yes I know the real reason people don’t like to wear them–lol)
no
I"m 54 years old and I’ve had people die in my presence—including one I tried to save but couldn’t. (no it was a M/C accident not a kayak) The point I was trying to make in the post is that if someone is paddling and has a heart attack the only real way to help them is get them ashore—fast—and if I were God I wouldn’t have to guide people in the summer for spare cash(it is work after all–pleasent but work.
CPR on Deck
Within the guiding community in Maine, we actually practice a rescue using two kayaks where we end up with victim square and flat on the fore deck of one of the boats. Involves the rescuing boat going hard on edge so victim is basically on the deck when the kayak on edge and then with the helper boat stabilizing and holding the edge and then doing a scoop type move on the rescuing boat (along with a strong hip snap from the rescuer) the victim and rescue boat rotate up. I guess you could call it a flop rescue . . .
Our biggest challenge is how to properly do chest compressions at that point from the cockpit. You may need to have additional rafted boats if the rescuer needs to raise themselves in the cocpit. Gets dicey.