If you are serious
you might contact Harold Deal (who posts as HRD on this forum) or Paul Conklin (who posts as conk). In 2010 Harold, Paul, and Gary Marble paddled across Lake Ontario in open boats.
You can read a little about it here: http://www.mpnnow.com/canandaigua/x297560817/Canoer-paddles-Lake-Ontario-for-breast-cancer
They could probably acquaint you with the potential problems and dangers you would face on such a long, open water crossing.
References
Here’s an account of an ambitious great lakes crossing:
http://www.seakayakermag.com/1997/aug97/prep.htm
There’s a series of safety articles in Sea Kayaker that is very good for cluing you in to the myriad way in which ambitious trips can go south on you…
OK
– Last Updated: Aug-09-12 1:32 PM EST –
So don't start by crossing Lake Erie. Take some time to work up to this in terms of paddling time and big water skills - like a full season or two - and find company that can support you in the trip.
The time you have in a boat is useful for learning balance, but not for getting the stuff you need for a crossing like this. I have stood on the shores of Lake Erie and seen the waves go from 2 feet to 6 feet offshore in the space of 15 minutes.
Kayak41North
takes ppl on day trips on Lake Erie, from mild to challenging. Mark Pecot and Co. are skilled paddlers and certified instructors. They have a range of seakayaks to rent, and they also sell a few every fall and spring. Paddles, pfd, and safety gear can also be rented. You can use your own boat and gear subject to their approval (they have general guidelines for open water paddling). They may even rent wetsuits.
This will let you get a taste of what open water on Lake Erie is like. And you can learn skills doing that, and also by coupling it w. instruction from Kayak41 North - on strokes, boat control in wind and waves, controlled wet exits, self and assisted rescues, safety gear, etc.
Some of these are pre-requisites for some of their trips. Other trips are for complete newbies.
you need some seasoning just like any of us did/do before paddling on a Great Lake, esp at that distance. The Lakes really are the Boss, they will make a paddler pay if taken lightly. It’s not just having the skills and knowledge, it’s practicing constantly to keep them and keep building on them.
Figure it will take a while (a few seasons minimum, esp for northern paddlers who aren’t out 12 months a year) to get skilled up for a crossing of the distance you envision.
A lot of fun and satisfaction along the way tho.
There’s a guy…
…named Eric Slough that posts here ( I think his Pnet handle is ‘emanoh’). He’s out of Toledo and crossed via Pelee with a friend.
He’s a high-level paddler and could provide you with some info. Personally I wouldn’t consider such a trip until I had a top level combat roll and all the accessory skills. The Lake can make short work of even a good kayaker.
Do 50 miles on flat water first
– Last Updated: Aug-09-12 3:34 PM EST –
Keeping a 4 mile per hour pace on water for 50 miles
needs to be under your belt by actually doing it first
on some INLAND water way, river lake laps, etc.
Why 50 - because you'll need reserves, lots of them.
Wind, waves and mother nature has ""surprises"" for you
on the big lakes and weather changes in 10 hours
-- especially on the Great Lakes
After you have 50 miles in a day under your belt,
repeatedly and with confidence, you'll think twice
about attempting this excursion.
-Hydration and Caloric expenditure are also huge.
Figure everything out before, and do it on flat water.
Train for kayaking, by kayaking, on the water !
If you got them, post trips, gps data logs or
something proving you've done 30, 40, 50 miles
in a day - solo - to ease our minds, okay .
You might want to invest in a SPOT unit as well
http://findmespot.com/spotadventures/
May I suggest Garmin Connect as well...
http://connect.garmin.com/features
Ergs are for Indoors......No Wind/Waves/Cold
http://www.examiner.com/article/indoor-kayak-machines-ergometers
Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation
Fundamentals of Kayak Navigation by David Burch I believe is a pretty good one that should put you on the right track for navigation skills. Learn your solid roll, both sides, right away if you haven’t already. I say both sides because once you truly have a solid roll figured out on both sides, you will realize that the skills learned aren’t just about rolling, and you need these skills from both sides of your kayak. Learning how to roll means not having to roll in the first place more times than not. The comfortable edge control skills you pick up as a result are especially useful in following seas.
Find some shore break that leaves you rolling and swimming so that you’ve truly explored your limitations, and then master those conditions to move on. Learn what it’s like to make mistakes and feel overwhelmed in a controled environment so that you can grow.
Have fun with it. There probably aren’t as many folks as you might think that have the skills and strength to take this on. I think it’s a good goal as long as you don’t assume too much luck and prepare too little. Observing weather patterns and associated open water conditions should put you in pretty good shape for estimating conditions for a 30 mile day paddle. As you will see in the navigation book if you read it, knowing how fast you intend to and are able to paddle becomes the all important baseline for navigating, so nothing wrong with the 4 mph 30 mile thought process to get you started.
have done similar before crossing trips
I’ve often done a couple 35 miler coastal paddles before doing a 22 mile crossing just to know I have the reserve especially if I have to tow someone else. 40 or so miles done a number of times to prep for a 30 mile crossing could be fine assuming one is very careful about the weather on trip day and aborts sooner than later.
Of course all this assumes all the other key points already discussed are covered. Best bet is always to find a highly skilled mentor and then enjoy the learning process.
What have you done so far?
Just some thoughts that I didn’t work on for too long:
I can paddle 8 miles at about 4.5 MPH. The last time I paddled further, 16 miles, I paddled at about 4 MPH. Knowing how I feel after paddling 8, 13, 16 miles, I would say that I would have no business paddling 30 miles in a day. I could certainly not paddle it at my typical pace without falling over dead at some point.
All I’m getting at is that you can plan all you want but you need to get in some time in the seat of your kayak over large-ish distances and then use that to predict your performance in your crossing.
I’m not young so I don’t plan on being indestructible. You could plan on being indestructible but it’s still a good idea to paddle some shoreline, out and back, further and further each trip, to see what you are capable of paddling and how you feel about it 20 miles into a 30 mile trip.
If you can paddle the distance and then some, I’d say go for it. It should be a great trip. Being alone away from shore is a great feeling.
Dave
I would do something like this
Here are some of the things I think you should do before you can realistically consider doing this trip:
•Find a local paddling shop/school with ACA or BCU certified instructors
•Buy a sea kayak and all the necessary paddling gear, including but not limited to:
-two quality paddles
-quality life jacket
-tow belt
-deck compass
-paddle float
-pump
-several dry bags
-quality hand held marine vhf radio
-waterproof GPS
-drysuit
•Find a friend who will do the same
•Take classes from the school, covering subjects including, but not limited to: Strokes, Rescues, Towing, Navigation, Incident Management, Rolling.
•Paddle as much as possible in a variety of water and weather conditions
•Learn and “perfect” a roll
•Paddle in surf, in my opinion the quickest way to learn paddling skills, plus it’s a boatload of fun
This will be expensive, anywhere from two to five thousand dollars depending on what you can find in the way of used gear and deals. As mentioned, it will take some time. Plan on taking at least two seasons/years to build your skills and experience. If you do this, chances are, like most of us here, you will have a great time enjoying the journey. Your goal will still be there but you’ll find just getting out to play with like minded people will be the read reward. As far as crossing Erie, as you go through this process you will know when you are ready.
Length of trip versus distance paddled
I think you’ve gotten some really great advice so far. I’d include one thing in your training which was intended by those who provided it but not specifically mentioned. When you do your near-shore training for distance, do NOT stop, ever, even when the training distance is greater than that of your planned crossing (gotta be fully prepared for things to take longer than planned). The difference between paddling 30 miles with breaks and without breaks is incredibly huge. Though I haven’t compared the two since I have no need to go that far without stopping, I DO know that when it’s a long distance between rest stops, things become more and more difficult as time goes by, yet after a short rest stop everything is easy once again. You won’t be able to take rest stops on your trip, so train without them. Sure, you can stop paddling, but you’ll still be stuck in the boat, and that’s a fairly large component of the overall fatigue factor.
take a few seasons to build up.
30 miles is a very doable distance in a sea kayak. I’ve done 40 miles in under 8 hrs. Start with the basics: strokes, rescues, rolls, forward stroke refinement, endurance, navigation, night navigation, rough water techniques. Then get experience with all the above. Along the way, if you push yourself, you will have a few ‘oh $hit’ moments. With the right group and the right knowledge and training, these will be learning moments not episodes of ‘I shouldn’t be alive’.
nonstop paddling.
I agree w. nonstop paddling as training.
A few of us were gearing up in February to do a 27 mile adventure paddle of lakes and rivers in April (40 degree water, 40 degree air). Seakayaks, drysuits, and full gear and safety gear.
We did six weekends of paddling 10, then 12, then 15 miles with zero breaks of any kind -paddles always moving. We figured if we could do that, we could make the break points at 8, 14 and 20 miles in course.
And we could. We could break, or take a 30 minute lunch and have plenty in the tank… which was good because the weather worsened, the waves went up and we went into the wind at the end. No one plans on it. It just happens.
It’s not realistic to assume a constant speed in open water. Fatigue, dehydration, wind, water and even digestion can alter the pace considerably, no matter what age the paddler. You need margins. You need conditioning.
Make sure the boat is perfectly outfitted to body. I’ve seen ppl more athletic than me throw in the towel sooner cuz their legs or feet were asleep. Or they couldn’t spend more than 3 hours in their boat due to back or buttock pain.
Technique too is key. Arm paddlers who can blow past ppl at shorter distances usually are fatiguing faster at double digit miles.
Getting all this under your belt is a lot. No quick and easy alternatives though. Great adventures are like that. If everyone could do them -they would. But they wouldn’t be the same kind of adventure.
Nervous Nellies Here …
I don’t think you need to spend years getting ready to paddle across Lake Erie on a good day, with fair weather forecast. You do need to know what safety equipment to have, how to rescue yourself, how to call for help, and you need enough stamina to paddle back to shore in high winds and rough seas. The last part takes some training and practice. I would look for some other people who want to do the trip with you and someone who might have a spotter boat or two different people at both ends of your intended route. Most of the people who post here have never gone more than a half mile off shore nor paddled over ten miles, and the average age is approaching 60, so take the advice to get some experience, choose your weather day carefully and make sure you have some back up with some one in a boat and hopefully others to do the crossing with. One warning long crossings on flat water are EXTREMELY BORING, on the other hand long crossings in high winds and waves can be a bit scary, but something you will remember.
think assumption is it can get bad fast
Our So Cal crossings to Catalina are very predictable and if the forecast says good then it’s generally good. I hear it can change much faster on Lake Erie. That said, I just checked a couple of buoys in mid lake and today wouldn’t be too bad (up to 12kts and less than 2’ waves) a day to be crossing and would mostly just be a long paddle.
I used to live in the Midwest
I have a lot of respect for the Great Lakes, but the weather is fairly predictable depending on the seasons.
Fairly predictable = room for trouble
In some ways I agree with you, but just in the last two weeks I’ve seen forecasts that were “wrong enough” to really screw up a crossing like that. One day, the wind blew in a completely different direction than forecast, ans the other day, it blew 25 to 30 mph instead of 15. As an inland paddler I seldom need to worry about such things, and I bet that I miss a lot of those cases because I don’t need to pay much attention to the forecast in the first place. My hunch is that such mistakes in forecasting are not unusual. On the great lakes, either of the forecast errors I mentioned would totally change things, likely making the difference between a do-able trip and not.
Trip Report
Check this out…
http://www.paddling.net/places/showReport.html?2790
You might send a message to the author offline for advice. I have not seen them post here for a long time .
Question Guideboat Guy
What’s your longest crossing … where , distance, conditions?
Where was your roughest crossing - where, distance, conditions?
Good advice so far
Hey Ryan,
I’m glad your thinking about tackling this crossing.
It is so tempting standing on the beach and just wondering what it would be like to paddle over the horizon! You obviously are smart enough to know that you need certain skills (not all of them paddling skills), otherwise you wouldn’t have posted here.
There is a very slight west to east current on the lake - about half a knot from what I’ve been told. You will be affected by the wind much more than that though. Long Point can generate rip currents.
You’ll need to work on obtaining a very efficient forward stroke. If you have done mostly whitewater or recreational paddling you’ll definitely need to work on your mechanics. Only an instructor/coach or very knowledgeable friend can help you with this.
As mentioned above, long solo crossing are either boring in good weather or terrifiying in bad weather, but somehow it is always worth it and strangely addictive. I’ve done some easy 8 and 9 mile crossings on Lake Erie and Lake Michigan and some hard, windy, 3 and 4 milers as well. Throw in a one day 50 mile Pensylvania Lake Erie shoreline traverse and I have a good idea of what you’re going to encounter, and I still encourage you to do it. Heck, I’ve been thinking about the same trip myself!
My advice: Go with someone else, a friend, paddling buddy, or guide. It makes a world of difference in safety and simply fun. When i’m on my own miles out and the horizon is not getting any closer, it sort of sucks. But with someone else the miles cruise by so much faster and you have someone to share in the glory of making it (or saving your butt). If you are set on a solo trip, i understand, just know what you’re getting yourself into.
A good opportunity to learn some skills you will need would be to take Exkursion Outfitters Coastal Kayak Skills class coming up in September right there at Presque Isle. Myself and another ACA certified sea kayak instructor will be taking a group (from the Pittsburgh area) through a day of navigation, communication, rescue, and paddling skills for the coastal environment. The prerequisites are our Level II and Rescue classes. You can see the whole schedule of classes at exkursion.com. Feel free to email me any questions you might have about our classes or the crossing.
Oh, don’t forget you’ll want to get a US Passport or card before you go.