Long story short, I raced dirt bikes enduro/off road for 15 yrs. In 2014, I had a huge high speed crash that literally nearly killed me. End of dirt bike riding career. LOL After 2 years of surgeries and rehab, I’m getting restless to get back into some type of adventure or competition. I’ve always enjoyed canoeing and exploring rivers. So I’ve been looking to get a boat start paddling. Recently I discovered they have a 130 mile kayak race locally every year here on a flatwater slow moving bayou called the “Tour du Teche”. So I’ve been researching what would be a good first kayak that would make a decent boat to do this race in Oct 2017. However, I just thought about my 75% torn rotator cuff and how paddling might be a problem. After dealing with several knee surgeries and all the PT, I just needed a break before having another prolonged rehab, so I’ve never had it fixed. My shoulder really hasn’t caused much issues in my day to day life, but I am limited. So am I just screwed when it comes to paddling? Anyone able to paddle with a torn rotator cuff? Should I even bother trying to find a kayak?
Three suggestions:
- Rent a kayak enough times to ensure your rotator cuff can handle it.
- Couple the renting with thorough instruction on strokes, particularly the forward stroke. Proper torso rotation will take significant stress off your shoulder … but certainly not totally.
- The 130 mile kayak race may be overdoing it on the time scale of interest.
Good advice. The race isn’t really a top priority, just would be something for me to strive for in the future to satisfy my competitive nature. It’s broken up over 3 days. Anyhow, I plan to go rent a kayak soon and see how the shoulder holds up. I’ve been looking at boats for a few months and honestly never thought about my rotator cuff being a possible deal killer. Need to find out.
@Adventure357 said:
Should I even bother trying to find a kayak?
Before I thought about the kayak, I would consider the paddle. Nothing other than low angle, either small blade Euro or Greenland. Keep your elbows near your body.
Here’s an outlandish idea. Get a nice solo canoe instead of a kayak, then put in the effort it takes to learn to paddle in the traditional way (you may need to check up on this topic, because even though you have done lots of canoeing in years past, the odds are good that you never met a person who paddles properly). If your shoulder ends up giving you problems, it will probably happen when paddling on one side but not the other. With the proper strokes, you can make a solo canoe do virtually everything you need, all while paddling on just one side, so whichever side doesn’t hurt your shoulder, that’s the side you would mostly be paddling on. To support this idea, there are many good solo-canoe paddlers out there who’ve never learned to paddle well on their “off” side, simply because they’ve become proficient paddling on the side they were initially most comfortable with and never saw any need to practice on the other side.
As a side benefit, you can easily find a solo canoe that weighs 20 or even 30 pounds less than most kayaks, and your bad shoulder is likely to thank you for that, too. You won’t be as fast in a solo canoe as in a kayak, at least not if you use traditional strokes (people who race canoes use a sit-and-switch paddling method, not traditional methods), but even with the traditional method you can still go pretty quickly if you develop your skill to a high degree. The only downside is that there are no “cheap” solo canoes of decent quality, and finding the one you want on the used market might be a crapshoot, and it’s far easier to get a halfway-decent kayak for a very low price.
You may be fine in a kayak, especially with a low-angle stroke, and if that’s the case, great. Go for it. However, since the average newbie is very much aware of the current popularity of kayaks but is completely unaware that there’s a whole world of solo canoeing out there and a huge selection of very fine solo canoes available, and just as unaware that many solo canoes are very nimble and efficient (much different than the generic aluminum or plastic tandem canoes most people are familiar with), I thought it might be worth mentioning.
Okay, and going with the idea that you probably haven’t seen a nice solo canoe in action, here’s a clip of a solo canoe cruising upstream against a brisk current on a river that’s almost in flood. It should be pretty clear that even this leisurely cruising speed will easily keep up with the average kayaker (you can scroll forward and back from the location of this clip to see four similar clips).
I’ve had minor shoulder issues and was able to paddle. The fix was just a cortisone injection and time; not so serious as yours. I’d suggest using a Greenland paddle and keeping your elbows down and as close to your torso as possible. Lots of torso rotation. Good luck.
I slid off a roof while holding a 5 gallon bucket of aluminum asphalt paint almost 2 years ago. Landing made me look like the tin-man, plus I severely tore my right shoulder rotator cuff. went through several sessions of therapy, enough to know how to do the exercises myself, which I continued along with solo and team paddle training. Decided against the surgery route with its restricted activity prolonged recovery time. Then I paddled in the Adirondack 90-mile canoe race 3 months later, no issues in my usual position as bow paddler. Did the same the next year (this past season), plus several other local races, including a 70-mile and my 20th ADK 90 miler race (no way I was going to miss that). No real shoulder issues, though i an tell it is there after a long day on the water. Am now preparing a 3rd return to the 440 mile Yukon River Quest next June with plenty of training yet to come before that.
@Guideboatguy said:
Here’s an outlandish idea. Get a nice solo canoe instead of a kayak, then put in the effort it takes to learn to paddle in the traditional way (you may need to check up on this topic, because even though you have done lots of canoeing in years past, the odds are good that you never met a person who paddles properly). If your shoulder ends up giving you problems, it will probably happen when paddling on one side but not the other. With the proper strokes, you can make a solo canoe do virtually everything you need, all while paddling on just one side, so whichever side doesn’t hurt your shoulder, that’s the side you would mostly be paddling on. To support this idea, there are many good solo-canoe paddlers out there who’ve never learned to paddle well on their “off” side, simply because they’ve become proficient paddling on the side they were initially most comfortable with and never saw any need to practice on the other side.As a side benefit, you can easily find a solo canoe that weighs 20 or even 30 pounds less than most kayaks, and your bad shoulder is likely to thank you for that, too. You won’t be as fast in a solo canoe as in a kayak, at least not if you use traditional strokes (people who race canoes use a sit-and-switch paddling method, not traditional methods), but even with the traditional method you can still go pretty quickly if you develop your skill to a high degree. The only downside is that there are no “cheap” solo canoes of decent quality, and finding the one you want on the used market might be a crapshoot, and it’s far easier to get a halfway-decent kayak for a very low price.
You may be fine in a kayak, especially with a low-angle stroke, and if that’s the case, great. Go for it. However, since the average newbie is very much aware of the current popularity of kayaks but is completely unaware that there’s a whole world of solo canoeing out there and a huge selection of very fine solo canoes available, and just as unaware that many solo canoes are very nimble and efficient (much different than the generic aluminum or plastic tandem canoes most people are familiar with), I thought it might be worth mentioning.
Okay, and going with the idea that you probably haven’t seen a nice solo canoe in action, here’s a clip of a solo canoe cruising upstream against a brisk current on a river that’s almost in flood. It should be pretty clear that even this leisurely cruising speed will easily keep up with the average kayaker (you can scroll forward and back from the location of this clip to see four similar clips).
Funny you mention a solo canoe, as that is what I was originally wanting to get, since I’ve owned a canoe before and I am pretty proficient in controlling it. Seems like a canoe would have more capacity for gear/cooler etc. I was leaning more towards a 2 seater though, so as to have room for my wife. My 9 yr old son wants a kayak though, he wants to control it himself. LOL. My wife has since bowed out and has no interest in coming along on our paddling adventures, so I figured I would join my boy and try a kayak out. The idea of covering more distance more efficently is appealling to me, as the type of trips I have in mind are long in nature. I will admit though, I’m not hung up on either type. Getting out on the water and introducing my son to adventure and exploration is the main goal. I guess my shoulder will dictate what I will be riding in. Have to say, just making the paddling motions with a broom in my living room causes some pain, so I may just end up using a square back with a trolling motor!!! How sad…
@yknpdlr said:
I slid off a roof while holding a 5 gallon bucket of aluminum asphalt paint almost 2 years ago. Landing made me look like the tin-man, plus I severely tore my right shoulder rotator cuff. went through several sessions of therapy, enough to know how to do the exercises myself, which I continued along with solo and team paddle training. Decided against the surgery route with its restricted activity prolonged recovery time. Then I paddled in the Adirondack 90-mile canoe race 3 months later, no issues in my usual position as bow paddler. Did the same the next year (this past season), plus several other local races, including a 70-mile and my 20th ADK 90 miler race (no way I was going to miss that). No real shoulder issues, though i an tell it is there after a long day on the water. Am now preparing a 3rd return to the 440 mile Yukon River Quest next June with plenty of training yet to come before that.
I hit 4 trees at 55mph on my dirt bike when my throttle stuck after coming out of a 3rd gear corner. The first tree I hit with just my right shoulder, that is what tore my rotator cuff. I ended up breaking my tib, fib, dislocating my lower leg out of my knee completely, as well as completely tearing the ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL, and Meniscus. Severe concussion and neck issues. Let’s just say that I’m VERY GRATEFUL that I have a limp and a bum shoulder…LOL!
At the time of the MRI results, shoulder doc said it was so torn that only surgery was going to help. PT would help a bit, but wouldn’t produce the results I would be satisfied with. At this point, I’m thinking that maybe a PT program might be enough to allow me to paddle. I’ll see how the paddle test goes, and go from there. Maybe this will motivate me to get it fixed.
Not all canoes have capacity. Some of the Savage River designs are narrow and fast like the Blackwater. And so is the Placid Boatworks Shadow.
They can be paddled single or double blade.
But you can paddle a kayak too with a single blade. Most people in my area carry a single blade for a spare though they use a double due to space constraints.
So your shoulder may dictate what paddle you use. Its got nothing to do with what craft you use.
No matter which type of paddle you choose make sure you use proper technique. That involves your torso muscles and much less on your arms… Find some videos of torso rotation
I just read an interesting article that makes a strong case that a single blade paddle with great technique could actually be more efficient over long distances than a double blade. Here is the link: http://www.crazybeverly.com/cano/spcdpk.htm
One of my river rafting friends ignored his torn rotator cuff for many years. It didn’t seem to bother him too much when he rowed his raft. Two summers ago he missed his line in a rapid on the Main Salmon and flipped. He tore his bicep on the same arm during the flip, and couldn’t row the rest of the trip. The torn bicep was the catalyst to my friend going to a doctor. Turned out that the bicep didn’t need surgery, but the doctor told him he really needed the rotator cuff injury fixed, so he finally had the surgery. I joked with him that the raft flip & bicep tear was God’s way of slapping him up side the head and saying…GET YOUR ROTATOR CUFF FIXED!
@gjf12 said:
@Adventure357 said:
Should I even bother trying to find a kayak?Before I thought about the kayak, I would consider the paddle. Nothing other than low angle, either small blade Euro or Greenland. Keep your elbows near your body.
Thanks for the Greenland paddle tip. Never heard of them before. Looks like something I need to try out for sure. Having both the Euro and Greenland on board seems like the way to go. Just switch from one to the other.
@Raftergirl said:
One of my river rafting friends ignored his torn rotator cuff for many years. It didn’t seem to bother him too much when he rowed his raft. Two summers ago he missed his line in a rapid on the Main Salmon and flipped. He tore his bicep on the same arm during the flip, and couldn’t row the rest of the trip. The torn bicep was the catalyst to my friend going to a doctor. Turned out that the bicep didn’t need surgery, but the doctor told him he really needed the rotator cuff injury fixed, so he finally had the surgery. I joked with him that the raft flip & bicep tear was God’s way of slapping him up side the head and saying…GET YOUR ROTATOR CUFF FIXED!
I hear you! It’s just that after all I’ve been through, plus not really having a pressing need for surgery, I’ve enjoyed not going to the torture chamber (PT office)…Ha. I’ve been mystified how I am able to play golf relatively pain free with the shoulder. So I’ve just been doing that. However, I need a little more adventure. I miss the woods.
@Adventure357 said:
@Raftergirl said:
One of my river rafting friends ignored his torn rotator cuff for many years. It didn’t seem to bother him too much when he rowed his raft. Two summers ago he missed his line in a rapid on the Main Salmon and flipped. He tore his bicep on the same arm during the flip, and couldn’t row the rest of the trip. The torn bicep was the catalyst to my friend going to a doctor. Turned out that the bicep didn’t need surgery, but the doctor told him he really needed the rotator cuff injury fixed, so he finally had the surgery. I joked with him that the raft flip & bicep tear was God’s way of slapping him up side the head and saying…GET YOUR ROTATOR CUFF FIXED!
I hear you! It’s just that after all I’ve been through, plus not really having a pressing need for surgery, I’ve enjoyed not going to the torture chamber (PT office)…Ha. I’ve been mystified how I am able to play golf relatively pain free with the shoulder. So I’ve just been doing that. However, I need a little more adventure. I miss the woods.
I’ve spent many hours in PT over the past 6 years myself, so I can definitely sympathize with you. In my friend’s case, his shoulder never bothered him much when he rowed his raft, even on long Grand Canyon trips. At least not bad enough to send him in for surgery. Hopefully with the right paddle & good technique, you’ll be pain free. Flat water paddling shouldn’t be as hard on your shoulder as whitewater kayaking. Have fun!
After reading about the injuries you incurred, I’m not certain that you’ll be all that comfortable paddling without getting the repair work done. There are a number of paddle strokes (kayak) that have the potential to torque a weakened shoulder, particularly in moving or choppy water. We just had an individual get a dislocated shoulder because it was already weakened (sprain) when someone aided him when entering a raft. Your shoulder is quite likely considerably less able.
As the elbow reaches shoulder height, the joint becomes considerably weaker. Any motion that brings the elbow above that exposes the shoulder to damage with relatively small pressures. In your case, the pain may well stop you from raising the elbows too high, but it is also possible that with the weakened shoulder, it will pop out of joint long before it feels severe stress.
I have to agree that a canoe may be less likely to aggravate the shoulder. There are performance / racing canoes that may nearly equal the performance of a non-racing kayak. Note that it is also to use a single blade paddle in a kayak, and this may reduce the injury risk (Inuit often used singled blade paddles in their ocean kayaks, but obviously the double blade is what is popular in the modern era).
I’d rather not give advice that causes or may cause injury, so I too recommend a gradual introduction to the sport that provides you with a chance to strengthen the joint and learn what works or does not work with that shoulder. There are numerous exercises possible, but the recovery route is a long one for injured shoulders, so I wish you luck.
Rick
Rick, you are right about when the elbow starts getting to shoulder height, the pain starts. I talked to my wife and I’m going get another MRI and see my Dr. Get the ball rolling on that and see what exactly my options are.
I thought about a realistic situation that could occur down the road in this hobby. Let’s say I’m 10 miles out on a solo trip and my shoulder pops out…I’m wondering how I will manage to get to the truck…I have some thinking to do. I need to find out how to pop it back in and what my SOP would be if that would to occur. Contrary to my appetite for risky stuff, I have a high level of self preservation instinct in me. I don’t know how it will work out, but I hope it does.
My rotator cuff tear was caused by sea kayak paddling, when I braced too far forwards in clapotis - a wave peak reared up well forward. I should have taken the roll. However long I rested the shoulder I could never paddle seriously, so I had the surgery. There were a few weeks painful PT, but since then I’ve been able to paddle without shoulder problems. It was worth it for me.
Nick.
My guess is that kayaking has caused way more shoulder injury than healing. I would not expect a shoulder with a 75% RC tear to do very well at the things you indicate you want to do. You seem like a competitive guy, even if that particular race might be a no-go, can you really see yourself taking it easy during any length race? And that doesn’t even consider weeks and months of training. You know the answer, get it fixed.