vertical type
Suggestions for a roll that would be the least stress on the shoulder?
an Angel roll on the unaffected side, with the loose arm left along the body, a forward sweep with the unaffected side as the outward one and the other {affected side} tucked close to the belly, a screw roll with the elbows tucked tight to the ribs and the paddle used and an extension of the shoulders and not extended. {hands right by the shoulders, not extended} Forward sculling…hands and paddle as an extension and in line with the shoulders. these are a few you should be able to do. {use either a Greenland paddle or an un-feathered Euro to cut the warble} Shotgun roll would also work…but I think the Angel roll would be more useful in a real world situation.
even a simple lay-back standard Greenland roll would work, if You kept your elbows tucked and use your paddle as an extension of your shoulder line {hands only move out to the side and not up, over the shoulder line. Most rolls are accomplished more by the proper body movement rather than paddle movement.
Best Wishes
Roy
Thanks Roy. That is some great info.
Also, if your right shoulder is injured, come up on the left side and vice versa. In case it hasn’t been repeated enough… elbows in close.
After rotator cuff surgery I have had no problems with paddling or with repeated Standard Greenland rolls in training, either with a Greenland or Euro paddle. This is with a rotator cuff that still cannot tolerate using a saw or resuming playing fiddle. I use as short a paddle as will work with whichever kayak I’m paddling. I also select a paddle with small blades. Both these practices are the equivalent of being in a low gear, so kayak speed through the water depends on increasing one’s cadence (stroke rate per minute) to compensate. This is kinder on my shoulder. We change down gear when cycling up a hill so as to reduce leg strain, and this is a similar technique.
The recovery from my rotator cuff surgery was far, far less of a problem than my total knee replacement.
Nick.
@nickcrowhurst said:
After rotator cuff surgery I have had no problems with paddling or with repeated Standard Greenland rolls in training, either with a Greenland or Euro paddle. This is with a rotator cuff that still cannot tolerate using a saw or resuming playing fiddle. I use as short a paddle as will work with whichever kayak I’m paddling. I also select a paddle with small blades. Both these practices are the equivalent of being in a low gear, so kayak speed through the water depends on increasing one’s cadence (stroke rate per minute) to compensate. This is kinder on my shoulder. We change down gear when cycling up a hill so as to reduce leg strain, and this is a similar technique.
The recovery from my rotator cuff surgery was far, far less of a problem than my total knee replacement.
Nick.
Wow. Rotator cuff easier recovery than knee? My Dr told me the complete opposite.
My knee recovery was horrible, in fact I’m still in the recovery phase 2 1/2 years later. Of course it was a huge trauma injury that almost caused me to lose my lower leg.
Dude, just keep hoping the epoxy and fiberglass repairs on the rest of that body surfing board continue to hold up. You really did a number on yourself.
The shoulder is a knotty issue, and rather than try anything as difficult for the shoulder as a roll, you are some steps you should take to test that damaged wing:
- low braces (better to stop a capsize than learn to roll)
- test a high brace where your hands never elevate above the chin, and your elbows stay tucked under your shoulder (a lot of rolls are, essentially nothing more than an extended duration high brace where you provide the force instead of the wave)
- hip snaps, particularly for you, as you don’t want the upper body to do a lot of work in a roll. While supported is best (you can do this while holding on to a dock or person). Make sure you have good contact with the boat and practice bringing the hip toward your ear. This pushes the boat down and under your butt and you will feel it bob up once it is supporting your body weight once again.
- make sure you are limber enough to lay on the back deck comfortably (if your choice of roll requires same). After all your injuries, it may require some adaptation of position to execute some types of roll.
Yeah, the knee replacement (for me, anyway) has limited some range of motion and I have to put my right leg in first whenever I recover or enter the boat. Aside from that, I was cycling to work within a few weeks afterward. You probably had so much other damage that recovery is going to take a lot longer. Some injuries linger for a long time (I dislocated an ankle 20+ years ago and it will still give me a reminder every now and then) and may never recover to one’s satisfaction.
Baby steps until you find the stresses the shoulder can or cannot safely withstand.
Good luck,
Rick
One problem in paddling with an injury is that the body is off-kilter now. It might try to compensate (without your knowing it), possibly enough so that you think everything is good enough.
Then something happens–an unexpected force hits you (wave, strong eddyline, collision with a rock, etc)–and your off-kilter body cannot handle the tweak from a new direction.
You are much more vulnerable to more injury when you are already compromised.
If PT has not recovered the shoulder, it’s time for surgery. Then more PT and strengthening exercises, then lessons, noncompetitive practice…strenuous activity, especially strenuous unfamiliar activity, should wait till after these.
Nick’s suggestion to paddle with a short paddle is good. Over the years I kept reducing the length of my paddles. It does promote more torso rotation, and it is easier on the shoulders. I won’t bore you with the list of injuries I’ve done to hip, both ankles, foot, lower back, ribs, neck, both shoulders, and wrist. From bicycling, hiking, slipping on ice, paddling, and from learning to (STARTING to learn, actually) ride a motorcycle. No matter what part or activity, continuing when the injury is not healed tends to lead to more injury.
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Very good advice, all of which makes good sense. I thank all of you for responding.
So what did you end up doing and how is it going?
I had to stop paddling. Sold everything. Both shoulders torn RC and torn Labrum in left.
Following up to my post #6 above. I went back to the sports doc and got sent to get an MRI. Looking at the results he said he would need to fix it surgically. I asked again how long to need to hold my arm in a sling fixed in front of my stomach. 3 months! No thanks. So he gave me a cortizone shot, directed with a long needle right where it needed to go in my shoulder. Immediate relief. I continued to train paddling single blade. The CZ lasted fully for about 3 months, but even after that I could deal with it. Just before another Yukon River race I got another CZ shot the same way with the same long lasting positive results. Several races and thousands of miles of training later, I am still going strong. If I think about how it feels after a few hours of paddling I can still feel that something is not quite right, but it is easily ignored.
It seems I have a number of friends who have had torn rotator cuffs. Here’s what they all did. They put it off, complained when it didn’t get better and finally got surgery. Then they complained some more about not being able to paddle, but not about the actual surgery. When they healed after several months, they enjoyed paddling again and the complaining stopped. These were all high angle paddlers, in kayaks, on whitewater. I have one friend who claims that shoulder surgery helped his roll. It tightened his shoulder way up (lost some flexibility but gained strength and stabilization).
I found that my shoulder injury forced me to paddle correctly. “By God you WILL use your torso or I’ll make you PAY.”
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It’s been several years since you posted this, so I hope you’re back in the paddle again. If not, several of Angle Oar’s customers have had major shoulder surgeries and have returned back to kayaking. Here is a blog about one of them, which includes a link to the adaptive Versa Paddle. Best of luck.
When I had rotator cuff problems, paddling was not much of a problem, but getting the boat off my van was excruciating. Any time I had to put my arm over my head was painful, so I bought a trailer.
If you have good form and technique paddling can help build up your shoulder. If you do not try too hard, get in places that stress your shoulder, or try to step into too technical of a boat, it should help.
As stated, sometimes the injury can be due to loading and unloading a heavy boat.
Be sensible and I don’t see a problem.
I’ll repeat again that it has been 4 years since I slid off a roof and tore my rotator cuff while holding a 5 gallon bucket of paint on the way down. I couldn’t raise my hand above my nose without extreme pain. The sports doc said after seeing my X-rays and MRI that I definitely needed the surgery and he could fix it only in that way. Instead, after he gave me a cortizone shot I continued to paddle train and race, focusing on my best form with every stroke. XC skiing also. Dozens of canoe races and thousands of paddling miles later, my shoulder and arm feel completely normal today in all activities. Maybe I am just lucky.