As an exercise
I looked at the review that I wrote about my own boat (Eddyline Falcon 18) and the reviews of others for the same boat. There is actually quite a bit of information about the boat. My review and some others provide information about negative things as well as postive things. Yes, there are a couple of reviews that don’t provide much info. But I would think in at least this one case you could get a pretty good idea of what the boat is like from the reviews. At least you would have some idea about what to pay attention to when you try one. None-the-less I still agree that overall there are too many “I just love my boat” kind of reviews.
to all
Thanks to all with positive advice. that is why I came to this forum.
Dr Disco, I read the reviews for the Falcon, and agree that they are good reviews. Yours was very favorable and still you gave it an 8 of 10. That, to me, seems an honest review.
David H. Your post made me question my position. So I re-read the Perception catalogue about the America 13. Maybe it does what it was built to do, but it is not a good boat for what it is advertised to do. “great foundation to build skills and confidence”: learning a J lean in this boat was extremely difficult, not to mention rolls. “sportsmen and photographers” anything in the cockpit gets soaked, and the rear hatch is very difficult to close while on the water. Not to mention that a two mile paddle to get to a spot to fish or photograph left me to tired to enjoy anything. it seems that a Carolina would have been a better boat for everything listed that makes the America, in your opinion “a fantastic little boat”.
Northman. My lack of thought doesn’t suck: The multitude of bad information was the reason for my bad purchase. After all, Perception claims that my boat provides a “fun-filled day paddling on lakes” and last I checked, lake MI is a lake. hindsight and all.
wheels78. why not plastic? I like that I can run it onto the beach or slide it across rocks?
JackL. why do you say I wouldn’t believe you? if you read what my needs are and have similar needs, I stated that I was looking for opinions. A broken seat back, repaired with duct tape tells me nothing about a boat.
brazilbrasil. thank you for articulating my point much better than I. I am not blaming anyone, including the reviewers: I did the research, I bought the boats, I don’t like them. I simply suggested that not every boat can be an 8 to 10 of 10, no matter what the purpose of design.
Eclipse 17 a bit bulky???
– Last Updated: Sep-08-05 12:04 AM EST –
I just happen to have a Peception Shadow 16'- 8"x22"(which is the less bulky sister of the Eclipse) and this boat just happens to be FOR SALE (see classified ad 8/15). I also own a WS Tempest 170 and agree the Perception storm hatches are better. I have the Shadow listed for $1500 (fiberglass) but I will SACRIFICE it to you for $1495.
-you're welcome.
p.s. The reason I'm selling the Shadow is that I feel it is just too good a boat for me. I will never be able to use this boat to it's full potential, so I would like to "donate" it to someone who will appreciate it.
OK, actually, it's because I bought a CD Extreme.
shadow
I paddled the shadow a few weeks ago and loved the boat: the control was unreal. I’m not a big person (5’8", 145 lbs) but it seemed to be a little too snug for any more than a one hour paddle. thanks
don’t pay attention to a rating scale…
When I read the reviews I don’t pay attention to the rating scales. Different boats are good for different things, different playing fields. What I find helpful is the review comments.
Your right!
Most of the rec boat reviews and the rec boats themselves suck. The marketing creates expectations for performance and quality that the boats can not meet. They have their purpose, nothing more fun than watching me brother-in-law in a Swifty trying to keep up with my kids their river touring boats out on the lake. Of course we give him the bigger paddle ($40) while they use the short paddles (Werner carbon whitewater paddles $270). My favorite example of the most unlikely thing sold as a kayak is the Old Town 160T. It may not track very well, but it sure is hard to turn.
I would suggest you look at Prijon. I found that the strength of the hull and quality of the fittings matched the high quality we were used to in Whitewater Kayaks. Go try them; there is no cheaper entertainment than test driving kayaks. Best experience: Carl and John’s in Madison WI- beautiful canal with stone arch bridges and the lowest key sales force. Most fun: rescuing some guy on the river behind Lacke and Joy’s in Milwaukee.
I searched and I think I found the standard rec boat review form:
“I just got my new kayak. It is a (insert name). It fits perfect, like a glove. We took it to the lake for (1 or 2) hours, it was (sunny/cloudy). It is mostly (red, blue, or green). It turns on a dime with hardly any effort. Even though it is a single the cockpit is big enough for me and (1 or 2) kids and (1 or 2) dogs. I got a great deal; it came with a paddle and a PFD. It tracks like it is on rails and has a (really or extremely) long glide. It is longer than it is wide and it is fast, there were other people in really long kayaks and I was able to keep up and even pass a few of them. This is my first boat. I’m going to add a rudder. 10 of 10.”
Check Out The Night Hawk As well
If you are going to check out Eddyline, might as well try both and see which is a better fit. Do me a favor though. I have a Night Hawk and I really love it. If you think it sucks, please don’t tell me. I couldn’t stand all the meds and the therapy. 
Lou
To Al
Thanks Al. The more we know what is going on the more we can assist or stay out of your way and let you learn on your own.
Accessing the rear hatch while on the water? Not suggested. What do you do if water splashes in? Starts to accumulate some weight and allows more water in? You must be very flexible to twist around, access the hatch and get whatever it is you decided you needed that (for some reason) you chose to stow before you put in. Some designs are good for accessing a bow hatch but I do not suggest opening any large compartment to the sea while underway like that.
Everything gets soaked in the cockpit? Are you using drip rings? Are you paddling too hard and splashing a lot of water around? Whats up with that?
Your too tired when paddling a short distance to a fishing hole or photography destination? Too tired from paddling a Perception America? These boats are like paddling a leaf Al. They just fly across the water for their hull length! Are you paddling too hard? Splahing water around versus getting a good torso rotation and smooth entry and exit on your stroke? Over-loading the hull?
Rolls? You betcha they are difficult to roll. Weren’t meant for it. We got a roll down in my son’s Antigua (very similar hull) but it was not a pretty sight. More of a combat roll compromise for just in case.
Sounds like you want a plastic sea kayak that you can learn in, yet not grow out of. The Tempest 165 or possibly the 170 (you might be a bit small for the 170) should be a good boat for you to demo if you can, buy and take the plunge if you can’t.
Just as we try to impress sailing lessons to newbie sailors, you should also get some paddling lessons from the descriptions of some of your issues with these play boats.
Good luck.
Valley Avocet
I would not buy any low-volume, polyethylene touring boat without first test paddling the Avocet RM by Valley Sea Kayaks.
The responses
were from folks who owned the boat and paddled it.
They wern’t being asked to compare one boat against another.
The america ‘sucked’ because you wanted something the boat wasn’t…In short, you wanted someone to do the leg work for ya rather than doing what everyone on P.net reccomends…try try try before you buy.
I was one of those who reviewed the america…Is it fast? No…
Does it carve splended turns?..no
Can You roll the boat? Probably not…
That said: I’ve taken the boat (with a skirt) in II+ water and fished out of it and even surfed lake Eries waves with it. It’s gotten me a million places and it’s gotten me back.
For me, it’s still a good boat.
What was it you were really looking for?
free advice
Free advice is usually worth every penny, but as someone who used to sell boats (used to, no bias here, every manufacturer makes at least one crappy boat,some more), I would reccomend the CD Squamish for someone your size. Of every thing I have paddled, it sounds the most like what you are looking for (I liked it but I’m a little too large for it). Plastic would be fine, CD’s plastics are pretty stiff, if you don’t mind the weight. Fast, rolls easy, turns easy, skeg for windy days. That’s my story. Look for a used one close by, some sellers will let you demo for a few days if they’re really motivated.
To answer your question to me.
You wouldn’t believe me since in your opening post you say: " most reviews here are useless".
I believe you already have made up your mind what you want and what you don’t want.
If someone came to me and said what is my opinion of my Eclipse, I would give them my straight forward opinion and they could take it for what it is worth.
Cheers,
JackL
Great Lakes
– Last Updated: Sep-09-05 10:39 AM EST –
No one with any knowledge or experience classifies the great lakes as "lake" paddling. They are, in terms of kayaking, most certainly "seas".
Shadow/Eclipse
– Last Updated: Sep-12-05 1:18 PM EST –
You might actually get used to the Shadow. If the Eclipse feels too big, it might be that the Shadow is the correct size for you. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "bulky" when describing the Eclipse.
If the Eclipse seems a bit large, you could pad it out with some minicell.
I'm a bit taller than you and a bit heavier and am quite comfortable in my boat (a Romany) which I think is a bit smaller than the Shadow.
It's not uncommon for people to decided that boats that feel "right" at first are too big after more experience.
ROTFLMAO…!
Shadow too much boat…
…went with CD Extreme.
That’s right up there with Grayhawk’s suggestion.
Riiiiiiiiiight… Watcha tryin’ to do to the lad, guys?
Oh well. I hope he finds a boat he likes to, for more than just this season, to
PADDLE ON!
-Frank in Miami
that is not an answer
but thanks anyway. Please, if you are going to quote me, try to get it right. I think that you didn’t read my post: it seems that you skimmed over it and formed an impression, based on your own defensiveness of your own personal reviews. I made no personal attacks on anyone, and offer my apologies, again, if I offended. However, there are many here (based on replies) that would agree many of the reviews are not good, thought I would say “The reviews here (or anywhere else for that matter) are almost worthless”
Besides, if I knew which boat i wanted, why would I ask for anyone’s input? I know what style of kayaking I am interested in, and I stated that in my original post. I am looking for input on boats, and don’t feel that I can get all the information I need from the reviews.
I agree completely
But, before you know anything, your cannot be knowledgeable.
Really?
I like the way the shadow fit, but I only tried it for 20 minutes. I was concerned that it might grow uncomfortable, not being able to move, after a couple hours? I have read stories of peoples legs falling asleep while paddling. The Eclipse was much to high (deck height) for me to get a good thighbrace fit, without bending my knees past where I felt comfortable. That’s what I meant about bulky. Plus, I have heard that it only performs well when loaded, and 99% fo my paddling will be day trips.
Como?
Are you guys making fun of me and I don’t realize it?
Tempest
Brother Algo, I think the Tempest 170 is way too much boat for you. 5’8", 145 lbs right? Try the Tempest 165. I’m 5’9" and about 160 pounds and paddle one.
Let me guess. You don’t like the Tempest hatch 'cause you have to bang on the cover it to get it to seat. A little 303 or (yes, I’m gonna say it) Armor All on the inside of the lip of the cover will eliminate the need to bang on it.
Good luck with whatever you choose. Paddle lots of boats.