That’s why we did it
Nobody wanted to be a “leader”. No paddles were happening, and when something did happen, it was less than 10 people on average, sometimes one or two out of a club of 400 members. It just wasn’t fun anymore. If I’m going to drive an hour and a half each way to paddle, it had better be fun!
So, we tossed all the formalities out the window, and said “Everyone is responsible for themselves, including where they go. If you want to launch at this place at this time, you’ll probably have company”. As a result, we started getting such big turnouts that we had to start doing things to limit group sizes, because the state was getting on our backs about it.
Paddles now routinely split up and go different ways, we have complete novices show up for paddles they aren’t prepared for (And are told they’re not ready for them, and are advised of alternatives), and yet somehow we still bring everyone back to shore safe. Some of our best and most skilled paddlers have no certifications at all.
I still show up with a master plan, and sometimes a route plotted on a chart for certain paddles I suggest. But my leadership style is very laid back, and respectful of the fact that many people who paddle around here have a definite problem with authority. It seems to work.
Wayne
I have been
asked to lead a trip in our club so this thread has been very interesting. There are 2 or 3 people that always lead the club trips and they are getting to the point where they would like for someone else to step in. There are no “certified” paddlers, let alone leaders, in our club. The turnout is small most of the time.
This summer we established a safety committee to develop a set of skill requirements. Four of us hammered this out and even set up a safety class. There was a good turnout. The growth of the club this year has been enormous such that setting guidelines for trips was becoming mandatory. Usually our Pres. tries to evaluate new members at our weeknight paddle but they don’t alway show. It is always the same few. He is not shy in stating what he thinks they need to know, or be able to do, before coming on a trip. Our discussions in committee really opened my eyes about the dangers to everyone when letting someone new join a trip. We are in the midwest and don’t always have adverse conditions but we all know that conditions can develop. We see people at trips with large open cockpits without floation or spray decks. Short boats for a large river paddle when everyone else is in sea kayaks. Independent minded people who wish to “go”. We establish a lead and sweep but a lot of time they get out of position. Sometimes the “independents” move out so fast the the group get spread out due to capabilities or craft selection. We feel a certain responsibility for all paddlers on the trip and have never turned someone away if they show. We will discourage participation prior to the trip day though if we know, or don’t know, the paddler.
The one beneficial thing to come out of the formation of our safety committee is that we are going to become an ACA affiliated club. I don’t know how that will change our club trips but we feel it is necessary. Our principal leader, and President of the club, has logged the entire length of the MO and Miss and spent 35 years in a kayak. He has no formal training or certification. He is not shy or bashful about his opinions. There are others that have taken some paddling courses and have paddled in extreme conditions. (Greenland and the Pacific) I, and 2-3 others have talked about getting ACA certification. We are trying to work on having a safe club and promote/educate safe paddlers as they join our club.
This is how we are handling trips in our club. For what it is worth.
Joe
Interesting
The club I used to belong to affiliated with ACA starting this year and only 2 people (I think; may have been 3) led trips. That’s even fewer than before.
The ACA affiliation added rules that repelled some people, and the safety director has not inspired confidence, to put it nicely. For one thing, he wanted to institute paddler skill logs so that any leader would know that so-and-so completed such-and-such skill (in a pool) and therefore was qualified for trips requiring that skill. But some people, including myself, would never trust someone else’s check-off on a skill performed once in a swimming pool. We would prefer to either have paddled with the person or at least get the thumbs-up from someone else we can trust. It was not clear to me whether such a checklist (which fortunately was not instituted) would have meant that trip leaders lost their ability to turn down trippers they felt were not qualified. That would have meant loss of individual volunteers’ control over the potential for being sued. I can think of at least one person I would never allow to paddle with me, not so much for their skills or lack thereof, but for what I perceive as an inclination to blame others for their own lack of initiative. To me, that is a red flag of someone who would be inclined to sue.
Given the state of local paddling and paddlers, I think the club would be better off totally removing any official roles, especially the safety director one, and instituting the “you’re responsible for yourself” philosophy that Wayne described.
BTW, becoming an ACA club doubled the annual dues. Yet there were fewer trips than when it was not ACA. One guy sent in his full membership fee to the ACA, as instructed, but never received any acknowledgment, nor did he receive any club newsletters. It’s as though the money vanished to ACA. Whether the problem is on the ACA side or the club side is unknown.
Your thoughts
are very insightful. We actually discussed trying to rate members and log that information but never could reach a conclusion. We did develop a list of skills to publish on a club site and in our newsletter to educate new paddlers as to what to expect and to spot areas where they could improve. We broke it down by the water difficulty levels. It was hoped that with this in hand they could decide for themselves if they were equipped for a trip. I was concerned when approaching the membership with our final draft that it was to stringent. It was actually accepted well and some thought that some skills should be learned sooner than we had outlined. We didn’t establish a director and don’t want to. We did conduct a class that was a big hit. So much so that we are considering another one. Our goal was to educate the new paddlers so that they would be safe on the water and to help them recognize what potential hazards there could be. We were/are seeing a lot on new people jumping out on a river with a new boat sans classes or instructions and with no knowledge of how to read water. Another goal was a little selfish on our part. We thought that sometime it might be one of us in need of some help.
Might be in for trouble
Wayne,
All for you just wonder when there is a wrongful death suit you all might be using a club method that has a much lower standard of care than other clubs in your region, despite claiming the everyone is responsible thing. I am not a lawyer, just a leader who attended trainings and read up on this issue in the book Lessons Learned. I am not proposing that we go around scared and this has been covered in other postings, just something you all might have a sports lawyer look over for you, ounce of prevention.
My Foray Into Finding Partners…
Northern NE Surf Kayakers - “no fuss, no muss, no rules, no dues…” You show, you’re ultimately responsible for yourself.
Okay, off to surf some storm waves before stuffing my face with turkey. 
sing
Yeah
In my little 3 hours-inland-road-bike-turned-sea kayak-community there ain't no leader/follower thing going on. More of a strengths / weaknesses thing. On our last coastal trip Bald Eagle was the communications guy. He monitored the VHF and enjoyed it. (I don't care for the chatter). Kayak Ken was the food guy. He brought a LOT of good food. I was navigation. I had the best GPS and enjoy navigating. We all had food, and we had two radios and two GPS units so we weren't absolutely dependent on one another. It was just a great trip paddling and doing what we enjoy.
Well,
I’m no lawyer either, but I do make my living off of the personal injury industry, so I have a closer view of it than most.
What we’re doing is making the club judgement-proof by telling people up front what the dangers are, and that we don’t make any decisions for them. We also have no insurance. No potential profit = no lawyer will take the case.
I have seen people with slam-dunk liability cases not be able to find a lawyer, because there were no assets to go after. It’s not like on TV where you can always find one. Most of the real ones only chase the ambulance until they find out there’s nothing in it for them.
I used to be on the board of another club who took a similar approach. They had a death on a whitewater trip, and nothing came of it in the legal sense. It was very tough, because now they’ve not only lost a member and friend, but they also had to hope their gamble paid off & his widow couldn’t sue the club. She didn’t.
It’s all a matter of figuring out the best way to protect yourselves. Insurance guarantees that lawyers will come knocking, acting as “experts” will do the same. We make no such statements – we just go paddling and share what we know amongst ourselves freely.
Wayne
Paddlin’ buds vs Paddlin’ Clubs
It’s nice when you have a crew that you know, a crew where everybody is capable and knows what they’re about. Some of my most enjoyable, relaxed, just plain fun runs have been that sort.
But from my experience those groups tend to stratify skillwise and be somewhat self limiting.
For me paddling clubs have provided a comfortable controlled path to more challenging waters both in the form of instruction and official club trips (as well as being a source of new paddling buds). I like being able to call a trip leader on a run that will stretch me and ask if he or she thinks I’m ready for it. I also like taking newer paddlers and helping them stretch.
So yeah the leaderless approach has it’s merits but I think it compliments rather than replaces the more formal approach.
I also question how much legal protection the show’n’go model provides when the insurance companies are trying to get anybody else to ease their burden.
Pro as back up? Yes!
that is really the best for intermediate paddlers.
It's great when I'm doing a rescue in harder conditions than I have ever done one in before and I know that twenty feet away is a guy who had done this a hundred times. Same for navigating through fog (still scary to me).
Letting us make mistakes and stopping us before they get too big and then critiquing is a great way to develop hard skills and perhaps soft skills as well.
The list is good
That kind of thing is helpful to newbies. I know from my own experience that seeing a bunch of those lists, and noting how similar they were, clued me in as to what was important to learn ASAP.
At least you are getting feedback from your club members; they are alive and kicking!
Thank you
You directly addressed two concerns of mine, as well as of other former club members: where there’s money to go after, somebody will ferret it out and go for it, right or wrong; and where there’s someone in an official position, that makes an easy target.
Maybe the best thing about having few rules, little formal structure, and no insurance is that it will attract people who simply want to go paddling.
Do you have any assets?
A home, a 401K, an IRA, savings, a nice boat, future earnings?
No insurance might keep your club from getting sued. Certainly the deeper the pockets the more vultures will come. But your club having no insurance won’t protect you.
Most of us have something to lose.
I guess what I’m trying to figure out is how to give back to a program that got me started without risking my families financial welfare.
Might be that I can’t.
Clubs…
don’t have to necessarily run in a very structured way and still provide opportunities for folks to stretch. I believe that’s the model that Wayne is operating with.
Honestly, I feel like I being stretched, when I feel up for it, and most of the time it isn’t with particular club. There are folks I have met here and there that have helped me stretch just by the fact they are there and can provide backup, if need be. (Of course this assumes you know their skill level and thinking).
Had a great session today in some chest to head waves on a remote point break that we had to paddle out to. I felt stretched in terms of the really learning more about the boat, the waves and the manuevers to get some great rides. It’s a matter of having the knowledge and comfort base to play. Part of the comfort base is that we both can roll very reliably but prefer to have a back up out there if one came out of the boat so one doesn’t just go floating out into the ocean.
Heck of a day. I was stretched and now feel tired.
sing
Nope…
as soon as you play “leader”, you’ve assumed responsibility and greater liability for those under your wings…
Giving back… To other paddlers or to a “club?” I feel I “give back” but it doesn’t have to be under the auspices of a club. I help folks when they seem receptive and there is something I can contribute. I guess that I don’t feel the same compulsion about an entity in which there are many individuals, some of whom I actually may not want to paddle with anyway because we are not on the same wavelength.
sing
That’s the answer, Tommy!
No assets! Just let us poor folks lead all the trips. I own absolutely nothing—no real estate, no retirement accounts, no investments, no business, nothing. Future earnings? Technically, yes, but by most people’s standards, no. Sue away! No blood in this turnip!
Sure Lee
I'll give it all away.
But you tell my wife. OK?
and even something as simple as…
… “telling people up front what the dangers are”, is taking a leadership role. Increases liability - does not help absolve any.
Simplest model: Self sufficient individuals paddling alone, who just happen to be paddling same waters at the same time. If trouble comes - and any assistance is rendered - Good Samaritan rules apply.
Anything more structured than that adds to the potential liability issues. Fortunately such issues are rare, and generally short lived.
Check With Your Insurance Agent
and get personal liability insurance. This way you can fulfil the desire to lead trips and give back and, at the same, time provide some protection for your family’s financial safety net.
Unfortunately, this is the best way to protect yourself financially in these suit happy times. Short of being totally negligent, the insurance company has to defend you against a suit. You have to pay literally for the privelege of leading.
sing
An interesting idea
If you are already a homeowner, adding an umbrella policy for a million covering any volunteer activity is cheap.
Some SOB van always try and take you for more but waving a million in front of their face pre-trial might be a good tactic.