Great quote…
"A simple idea is that a leader understands the limitations and assets of the group, and forms a structure necessary to meet the day's goal."
A good leader creates synergy in a group.
Some leadership stuff... http://www.nols.edu/about/leadership/leadership_skills.shtml
Walk the Walk
and I will gladly listen, even be compliant. It’s those that can’t back up the talk with real life paddling skills I am speaking of. Yelling at a newby 3’ away does not teach or empower, it frustrates and sends them off to learn on their own.
It could be a matter of appreciating the method I was taught and more importantly, the way individuals learn. Actually having the skill and developing a method of teaching is a gift. Those who really have it often possess a level of humility making better teachers and leaders
Paid leadership
I think a lot of the concept of “leadership” comes from groups where there is a guide or leader who is paid to do this - usually for beginners.
I can’t imagine going out with a group of peers and having a leader. Usually we are friends and the decisions happen automatically with everyone’s agreement. If someone wants to stop for lunch, everybody has lunch because nobody is head strong in the agenda. If there’s a yahoo in the group who insist on going off by themself in rough conditions, then usually they are not invited anymore and considered a loner and an AH. People just get along on the water as they do on land and it’s very simple.
Random thoughts
Managing leadership in the manner presented by otterslide, and likely others but I forget already after reading the thread, would likely assure that a good inventory was made beforehand of skills and equipment. That is valuable in itself - when things go south is not the time to discover that half the folks who have a tow belt are not confident deploying them in anything bumpy, or that someone you had assumed could do rescues is recovering from shoulder surgery.
After this inventory, it comes down to what you do with that information. Do you just push off figuring that everyone will manage fine in the moment if there is a problem? Or do you also take time to decide HOW to use this information before you launch? Examples would be pairing paddlers so that no one is away from a boat with critical equipment like compass, setting boundaries on whether a crossing will be done based on conditions, that kind of thing.
It seems to me that leadership emerges at the point that people make decisions and take personal responsibility. So the first part, the inventory, isn’t leadership. It’s the second step, deciding how to use that info, where leadership happens. I can’t see how this is a bad idea.
A boss isn’t necessarily a leader
And vice versa.
As you can see, lots of people (including myself) have had negative experiences with those who might be termed leaders (designated or not).
If the BCU sea leader training helps to refine concepts of leading, that’s great. But that leaves many wannabes who don’t participate in or adhere to BCU training. I still think someone’s personality makes a huge difference, because the would-be leader has to be open-minded, no matter how high his skills level. This is one of the ways I automatically separate real leaders from control-types–is he a know-it-all or does he consider suggestions from people regardless of their skill level?
Leadership and club dynamics
This has been one of the better p.net discussions.
Warning: long posting
Many Northeastern coastal paddling clubs have a leadership structure, safety training, and/or operate under the Common Adventure Model (CAM).
Back in early May of this year there was a nearly disastrous kayaking club outing on my local waters in Upstate NY. I believe leadership and club policy, or lack thereof, played a large role in this misadventure.
I was once a member on this club, but most of their trips are a bit of a haul for me. I had attended two of their outings in past years and I had intended on making the trip in question because it was so close to home, but I ended up having a conflict. Another reason I do not normally seek the club out is that it is more of a 'social' organization. Safety is not really emphasized, outside of carrying a pfd, but there is no requirement to wear one. I recently checked the club's website. I do not see that they specify any safety protocols or a trip model to follow (e.g. CAM). They do not operate with designated trip leaders. These are intended to be relaxing 'flatwater' trips, so they are pretty informal. I am not bashing that. I just wanted to set the stage.
The venue in question is a local flood control reservoir maintained by the Army Corp of Engineers. The reservoir is fed by the tributary to the Susquehanna River. It is roughly 1/2 wide and 4-5 miles long at normal water levels. It can grow to 16 miles in length under heavy run-off and has a North-South orientation. Forecast for the day was steady 25 mph winds out of the North to NW, with gusts above 30 mph! Yes, the forecasters got this one right. If this had been a coastal trip their would have been a small craft warning issued. The victim in question had a dry-bagged cell phone that thankfully allowed him to contacted 911, while still in the water. I estimate that water temperatures that day to be in the low 50's. I paddled the reservoir two weeks after this incident and recorded the temperature at 56 degrees F. Apparently none of the participants ever asked the basic question, "should we be paddling today?".
There had been a lengthy, contentious, and valuable post-incident discussion on the club's discussion board, but conservative club officials apparently had it taken down. I have not seen any indication that this club has developed any new policies resulting from this trip with the exception of the VHF radio recommendation (see below). I personally do not feel that the presence of VHF radios would have necessary helped unless usage and response guidelines had been set-up in advance, along with some assisted-rescue proficiency. Note there is no mention for the need any safety training in the report. My experience is that this group it a bit like 'herding cats'. Everyone pretty much does their own thing, with the exception of launching together and having post paddle dinner get-together. This approach has served them well in the past, but would not in this instance.
I have asked myself, if I had been there, what could I have done? I have a pretty decent skill base (BCU/ACA), but I would not have tried to impose my will on anyone. I like to think of positive what-ifs, but again I was not there.
The following trip report was taken from the club's website. Note: I have changed the names of all participants and some of the cited places.
Trip Report:
"Every so often an event occurs that spices up weekly write-ups. More often than not it’s something we can make light of and laugh about later, but it’s not always the case. The paddle on Winding River Reservoir was eventful, but not in a good way. It ended with the arrival of emergency crews. Several police cars, an ambulance, and a pickup truck with a motorboat in tow rushed in with blaring red and blue lights and a familiar wailing of sirens. They said they received a phone call from a kayaker in distress and asked if we were all accounted for. No, we were not. I had just reported to Hugh that Peter was left behind.
The paddle started great. A convoy of kayakers trickled into the parking lot to enjoy an afternoon on the water. The weather couldn’t have been nicer for an early May weekend with one glitch: it was windier than expected. Twenty one paddlers launched off a grassy shore. We surfed along the east shoreline at moderately high speed. After a few turns and nearly three miles we crossed under a bridge and entered a serene creek. We meandered for about two more miles and turned around once it started to get too shallow. Since there was no official club break and some of us desperately needed to stretch our legs and backs, Fred, Jeff, Hugh, Peter, and I decided to stop for lunch. We ate, rested, and had a close bare-legged encounter with thickly growing nettles. Predictably, our spontaneous break separated us from the group.
The West Side Story
Todd recommended using the west shoreline of the reservoir to paddle back in order to avoid strong wind. The main group took this route. Below is Betty’s account of the west side paddle:
“Our side of the ‘pool’ was ten times as hard to paddle!!! We had plenty of time for conversation because it took a smidgen longer to go against the 2-1/2 foot waves (like Lake Ontario), the washing machine waves (like Owasco Lake), the banging waves (like Cayuga Lake) and the ‘where did that side blast come from’ wave (like Oneida Lake). The frogs were louder on our side, because they were cheering us on. A large variety of birds also appeared to entertain on the voyage, almost like cheerleaders. A sympathetic stranger on the shore handed an obviously ‘much needed’ can of brew to a thirsty kayaker. They are now nameless BFFs!! We crossed right through the middle of the town’s rowing buoys. They looked like candles with LED lights in them. We took some sneak peeks at the tiny islands. Our sore bottoms and arms were happy to find relief on shore with the rest of the crazy gang who judiciously ignored all severe storm warnings.”
The East Side Story
Not everybody in our group knew about Todd’s recommendation regarding the course for the return trip, and there was no discussion on the subject: we simply followed the same route back. Once we re-entered the reservoir, the wind was horrendous. Despite of slow pace and doubled effort to keep moving forward, we truly enjoyed the challenge. It was a fun ride, however exhausting. Hugh, Fred, Myron, and I paddled abreast, while Paul was ahead of us and much closer to the shoreline. We caught up to him when he stopped and got out onto the shore. We asked if he was okay, and he said he was fine but tired. He took only a minute and was soon back in his boat paddling some ways behind us. We kept checking on him repeatedly until strong and persistent gusts of wind forced us to fight for our own safety. We were now scattered about and by the time the wind subsided and we turned back to look, we could no longer see him. We assumed he took another break or was hidden from sight behind a bend. Thus, we arrived at Manchester Park and let Hugh know he was missing. Just then the emergency vehicles drove in.
The emergency crew brought Paul and his kayak back to safety. He didn’t need medical treatment but was soaking wet. I estimate he must have spent at least 40 minutes in the water. He capsized right behind us while still in sight, but we could neither see him nor hear his whistle. Despite of his close proximity to shore, the wind pushed him away and prevented him from swimming to safety. Despite of him owning a whistle and a paddle float, he was unable to summon help or re-enter his kayak in such windy conditions. Despite of being with a group, he was on his own. Luckily for him and those involved, he carried a cell phone that enabled him to make the emergency call.
Bad weather conditions, unfamiliar tippy kayak, and some wrong assumptions on the part of our group contributed to this perilous situation. Had we had better safety procedures in place or reliable means of communication like a handheld marine radio recommended by Todd, the danger would have been diminished.
A VERY important lesson to be taken from the events of Sunday...
We all have many hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars wrapped up in boats, paddles, accessories, and gas every week. We should ALL have a handheld waterproof Marine radio. The situation could have easily been defused if EVERYONE had a Marine radio on board to radio to other paddlers for assistance, or at least alert everyone to the unfolding situation. I ALWAYS carry mine. They are very inexpensive at under $100 for a basic, but adequate unit, up to $200 for a very good unit. Key is WATERPROOF. It should be kept on your person so it goes with you even if your boat does not! And not in a waterproof bag that makes using the controls difficult if not impossible. Feel free to call me (555-555-XXXX) or email me with any questions or if you just need advice. I researched these units extensively before purchasing mine so I am very familiar with many brands and models. Here is a link to a business that sells many brands at very competitive prices. Is your life worth $200??? Mine sure as hell is. So save your pennies and smarten up. A radio is NOT a luxury. A high end kevlar or fiberglass boat, or carbon paddle is. If you have any of those items you damn sure should have a marine radio. You or someone you paddle with may be saved in an emergency situation if you have one. I even mentioned to our group on the west shore Sunday while watching the group struggle up the east shore that I wished someone in the group that included Paul had a radio so I could have told them the conditions were MUCH better on the west side of the lake. Sunday ended well... it could well have had a much different outcome.
Everyone, and anyone!
It is so awesome to be a member of a group that can recognize a problem and take immediate and certain steps to alleviate that problem. This club will be so much safer from here on out! Here are 2 links to sites that I found very helpful when I first got my VHF.
Have fun, it ain't rocket science. I propose that we as a club have a designated channel for club communication... Channel 69 is a general non-commercial communication channel. Let's use it."
If people want leadership on the water…
I think as a group, you would have to make a decision if you want a leader/leaders before even getting out on the water. It would have to be a conscious decision to put people in a leadership role, and have others assume an active and supportive followership role. Everyone would have to agree on the roles and duties of both the leaders and followers (lots of good ones already listed in this post) and understand that leaders are not guides, but just fellow paddlers helping to facilitate a safe and enjoyable day on the water, whatever the format may be. If people want to paddle in the group, they partake of this accordingly, if not, they are free to paddle solo.
If you regularly paddle with a core group of people, you could try taking turns having two volunteers as leader and co-leader. Start with people who are more experienced and comfortable in the position, have them “lead” a paddle for a day, then the next time you paddle together, get one new volunteer for the co-leader position, and rotate through. Start in a venue that is conducive and familiar. After each paddle, have a quick (very brief or people will get tired of it) discussion of what works for both the leader and the followers. Preferably over beers. To start off the results might be a little rough, leadership is an art and requires practice, but people catch on quickly. Just my 2 cents…
nice report… interesting conclusion
I don’t think more VHF use would have been my answer. When things get rough like that I often do a head count up to twice a minute and NEVER leave someone behind without some talk and agreement. If I arrived with the wind already up a bit I likely would change the event to be a rough water play/practice and maybe never go more than a mile from base before doubling back. If even that one mile proved too hard to paddle against the wind I might consider options for landing and finding a land way back to the launch point.
Peers & peers
just got back & read this thread - thank you Nate for one of the best pnet discussions of this season.
Nate’s premise starts with accomplished kayakers going into challenging venues who are indeed peers afa their skill sets. They know each other - as paddlers and people
That entails one sort of leadership dynamic and the points about the leader vs. the wolfpack have been well enumerated. IMO in a small group of true peers either model could work.
then the thoughtful post about by the NY state club incident in the reservoir that resulted in a SAR response.
That group from what I glean was not “peers” in the sense that Nate’s group is. They were a much larger group, very likely one w. many diverse skill levels. Probably each member did not know all the others well as paddlers and personalities - it would be fairly impossible w. a group of that size.
In that dynamic in that scenario a more structured leadership among 3-4 of the most experienced paddlers would have been optimum - for head counts, route changes, assisting tired paddlers, etc. Not that the leaders themselves would necessarily be doing all this themselves - in fact during towing it is preferable - acc. to the BCU practice - that the leader not be directly involved - but they could discuss and decide who should be doing what.
With the “peers” in three groups, a leader and a sweep, at minimum, should have formed up w. each group. Experienced paddlers should have discussed and agreed which of them went with what group on what route. A common meet up place on shore should have been confirmed.
And yes, there should have been at least one in each group with a VHF - and a compass, and tow belt, or at least a painter and contact tow. More would be better - redundancy is generally good for safety
VHF radio - not so much as to talk to each other as to make a call for assistance w. as many useful specifics as possible. Far better to have the skills and judgment to avoid making calls for assistance than to rely on a radio channel so someone else can take care of business.
Real trip leaders do not leave anyone behind, 99.9% of the time (making allowance for life and death situations when only one is capable of going for help, and even that is in extremity) The next most experienced goes to them and evaluates the situation, rendering help when and how they are able.
Staying in visual proximity is important when wind cuts sound transmission (whistles and voices). If people stay in visual proximity, then paddle signals do work, head counts are far easier, and rescues can be effected that much sooner.
The folks in this club were not “peers” in the sense of Nate Hanson’s group. Some of them were not “peers” who were capable and ready to render assistance. Not “peers” in the sense that they could all handle the conditions with which they were presented.
And also, because the club officials chose to censor discussions about the incident, not “peers” friendly to lessons learned.
A very valuable post to augment Nate’s - many group paddles are among persons, not “peers”.
amen
well put
not always
a lot of my early exposure to group leadership on the water came - and still comes - from certified instructors who lead trips in conjunction w. various symposia. And I’d say across the board it has been strong, impeccable in technique, varied in style but always w. excellent results.
at least no one was left behind, people weren’t taking off by themselves in the fog, or taking trips in open water without skirts, etc. Which is a pretty low bar but which obviously does happen in some group paddles w. “leaders” paid or not.
In fact it is good to see 3-4 instructors in, say, a group of 18 intermediate paddlers, discuss options, assign roles, etc. Very smooth, very effective.
I’d be very glad to lead as well as these people. I’m not abdicating my own responsibility to think for myself, but incorporating many things I learned from watching them.
the instructors are not paid… they might get lodging (sometimes) and more usually meals, but they pay for their own travel to the symposium, take their vacation allotment from work, etc.
So while I appreciate the example given it is not the only case.
ditto
I agree. Strange conclusion from that disaster.
I think my take-home message would have been stick together. Don’t leave behind paddlers in your group.
I see you’re from Wilmington
We should get together for some coastal paddling. I believe I may have tagged along on a couple paddles that you were on, but that probably would have been better than a year ago.
I don’t really have much to contribute to the leadership stuff among all that’s posted here. I do remember one particular paddle that I thought could have been a film on bad ideas. A group of varying skill levels and experiences, for the most part unfamiliar with one another, and no thoughtful discussion at a stopping point where it was needed. That was an interesting group dynamic. A good-sized group of happy, friendly people - I think around 18 people. 4-6’ seas breaking into the inlet we’re going to paddle out of. No one is familiar with everyone elses skill level. We stop on the sand for a break, in clear sight of the inlet we’re about to paddle out of. And no one takes the lead as a group to discuss who has done what, and ask if everyone is familiar with safety issues. I guess we were the other end of the spectrum that day.
IMO, bosses are usually not leaders
Yeah, I agree most people have a negative view of leadership because “lots of people… have had negative experiences with those who might be termed leaders”
Here is a provocative idea. If a kayak outing required of participants certain skills, such as the ability to roll,or to tow, don’t we have an obligation to ask them about that skill? Why don’t we assume the same about a designated leader? Leadership is a skill, it is not in the genes. The old nonsense about “leaders are born, not made” seems often to be the operative rule when people assume a leadership role.
That probably why others have “negative experiences”. So many would be leaders only know one style, the paternalistic autocratic style.
The autocratic/authoritarian style does have a legitimate place- when high stakes, bad outcomes, and time is not a luxury, it is often the most appropriate. Incident management, for example. But the overuse of that style when not necessary makes for unpleasantness, and is very much like the Boy that Cried Wolf. When used inappropriately, the style loses its meaning when it is necessary to employ.
Participative, delegative, transfomational, transactional…if a would-be leader can answer (or understand!) a question about the style they think is appropriate for a particular group and their goals, it might be an indication that they have had some training!
Could that have been the
Masonboro trip last year with folks down from Raleigh? Easy on the way out and wind kicking on the way back with folks scattered over several miles. Yeah, that was a cluster of sorts.
There were too many chiefs and not enough indians on that trip. Some wanted to surf, some wanted to look for purty shells, others wanted to get back and out of that wind asap.
The comment about peers verses paddlers makes a lot of sense. The slowest or least able paddler will naturally dictate the pace and sweep. We often had one experienced paddler stay back and along side so they could go at a slower pace. Exhausted and feeling pressure to keep up will add to the possibility of incident.
I am always mindful of others in the group and on the ready, I just choose to be quite about it and monitor. It is as easy to go fast in big loops as it is in a straight line so the fastest is often the best sweeper.
I have found paddling with friends as opposed to groups to be much more to my liking. There will always be new additions but out of the context of a club, paddling trumps politics and everyone enjoys learning.
Do you think there is some gender bias?
"Participative, delegative, transfomational, transactional" has a bit of the kinder, gentler tone to it rather than the authoritarian/autocratic style.
There is a hint of gender-related differences above, though how much is culture vs nature I won't guess at.
I don't have enough experience in "led" groups to answer my next question, but you probably do: Do you see consistent differences of leadership style evident with male leaders vs. female leaders? Or does their training supersede any inherent differences?
I like the idea of asking leaders about their skills. In some cases, there's no need to ask, but if in doubt, why not ask? I suppose it might be taken as someone "challenging" them--maybe that in itself is a good barometer of what kind of leadership style that person has!
otterslide
you make some excellent points.
too many people can only conceptualize “leadership” as being authoritarian/paternalistic/totalitarian - at least as they conceptualize it, which is kind of like putting up a strawman against it, since, as you noted, there are many kinds of effective leadership.
Sometimes, when the stuff is hitting the fan, there is no time for inquiries, adjustments for personalities, attending to “feelings” etc.
I remember w. a mix of awe and amusement whilst on a outing, a person was on a current headed straight for the base of some shear dolomite cliffs in northern Lake Michigan (e.g. cold water at that time)
The lead was shouting at her- repeatedly- to paddle backwards. A simple instruction and perfectly calibrated for this situation. The person was debating this as her boat drew ever closer. Finally something kicked in and she did as she was told. In this case she needed to be told, as she was not assessing the situation as accurately or as swiftly as the leader, and time was of the essence.
I don’t think this would have gone as well if the leader and the person played twenty questions.
Both were women, btw. As for mixed groups, if a leader knows their stuff and conveys it effectively, IME no one cares what gender they are. Unless in an ivory tower or overtly PC setting, people are about winning, results, however you want to put it.
People will follow leaders that will get them there, no matter what their chromosomes.
I remember that day
Laine and I caught up with you guys after we found out we didn’t have a boat building kit at the Cape Fear Community College fundraiser for their boat building school. The ocean was nice and calm that day. I think you and I were the only ones that played around in the surf. People definitely got spread out on the way back.
But I was actually thinking of a Bear Island circumnavigation. There had been several days and nights straight of small craft advisory, sustained 20+ knot south winds, 5-7’ steep seas, which luckily finally let up that morning. Now the NOAA radio reported 4-6’, small craft advisory lifted, and the whitecaps were gone. You couldn’t see back to the beach or inlet, even from the crests, once you got through the breaking waves. And you couldn’t see out beyond them from the beach. And the progression from here is where it became glaringly evident that someone should have started a discussion before moving on. No deaths, no injuries, but many very bad decisions. Made that Masonboro Island trip look like a fairly well planned day at the park. But as pointed out, sometimes those are the days bad things happen.
group size
I’d also add that with or without leadership, a group of 20 paddlers is not that safe IMO. A person can’t keep track of that many boats, and even if you appoint 2 or 3 leaders, those co-leaders will have trouble keeping track of their charges within the large mingled group.
For safe group paddling, I think the group needs to be a reasonable size. Large groups need to be separated into autonomous groups of manageable size, meaning they are paddling in separate groups on the water. Different leaders will have a different max number that they’re comfortable with, but for me it’s probably 10 or 12. Anyone who can actually keep track of 20 individuals on the water has more eyes than I do.
I don’t have much experience with large club outings (since there simply aren’t enough paddlers up here for that kind of problem). For those of you involved with the clubs, do your clubs split the group when scores of people show up? Do those groups intermingle, or paddle separately?
Larger club paddles
Our local ADK paddling group probably comes to the max size of most who will post. We have weekday after-work paddles usually on area rivers, generally out of the reach of hugely serious trouble. We had a couple of ponds that we used in the past, but local arguments over parking and access have put them out of our reach because of the number of cars we have to handle. The groups start and end the season on the smaller side due to weather, but they jump in size like crazy once the water hits 70 degrees. At peak there'll be 50 paddlers on the water.
The club has other paddles, but these tend to be much smaller and more evenly set up in terms of talent on the water.
The weekday group is very, very mixed. It'll include everyone from folks who are renting a boat and going out for the first time to people with very solid skills. The boats are also pretty mixed - WW/flat hybrids, rec boats, transitional and full out sea kayaks. Also some canoes, but with a couple of exceptions over the last few years the canoeing minority does a pretty good job of staying out of trouble. As can be assumed, wind can create a bit of an issue in a bunch this varied.
The good thing to say is that we separate into at least two, as the group swells often three, pods before the paddle takes off, with a leader and sweep in each pod. The slowest pod is where the most vulnerable paddlers usually are. The sweeps are usually volunteers chosen at launch time. The leaders and co-leaders are designated up to 3 months much earlier because of the lead time required for the hard copy publication of the paddles.
The diligence of the selected leaders in showing up is pretty good. We have to do a few substitutions a year, but most are like me. I have bailed on one of my leader or co-leader spots maybe 3 times in the last three years for funerals etc.
We get a couple of so capsizes a season, which is not bad for a group that swells to this size and goes out weekly over a period of about five months.
All that organized stuff said, we have recently come to a point where the situation needs attention re rescues. As of a couple or so of years ago we had a large number of the regulars that we had gotten into a skill session every couple of weeks and we knew could do a basic assisted rescue with a kayak. They wouldn't be leaders, but you could look down the pod if it had gotten disorganized (a common event) and see a rescue-capable person situated throughout near the renters and other newbies. But we lost both the best venue to do it in (one of the ponds) and had a gradual changeover of people, so rescues are an area where there are now really too few of us distributing ourselves thru the groups on the bigger paddles to make sure that is covered well.
To address this the club is sponsoring two days of the BCU FRST (two one-day sessions) in early October. There have been incentives offered to encourage people who otherwise don't do regular practice work to sign up which are working.
The other area that is a continual challenge is cohesiveness within the pod. Because of the mix of paddlers, there just isn't a group consciousness about the need to stay within reach. So some days it works out well, other days it's just not ideal. The risks are not those of the ocean - we are talking basically flat rivers where a quick trip to the shore is just about always available - but the spreading out does add in other risks like people unfamiliar with channel markers getting into it. So a pod leader or someone who knows better and has a boat with good acceleration is often charging out to the middle to tell someone who is unaware to get out of the channel.
All that said, we get a couple of so paddlers a year from this who seek out more training and upgrade their equipment, by being generous with time and letting people borrow stuff during the paddle... this is a good result.