summer !
Nantahala Outdoor Center, NC !
124 miles down the road.
Bring the tent. And a wet suit from Campmor.com.
I’m posting a foolproof, teacher not needed, brace and roll learning exercise NOT a question.
Nordman nej. Jeg tror han er helt sprø.
What boat do you paddle?
While it is correct that every kayak can be rolled by someone, there are kayaks that make learning a great deal easier. I suggest that you chat with any instructor you find about whether you should try starting in your own boat or borrow one from them. Most coaches have a few used boats in their garage for this kind of purpose.
When we started our BCU stuff, we worked in a way that was suggested above. We found a local BCU certed coach and worked individually with him, highly motivated to do so after we had a good look at the quality of the water in the neareast center that taught BCU skills. The floating swan crap in their main bay wasn’t working for us.
I really like the idea of individual instruction, of course as long as you and the instructor click. The tyranny of the clock in evening pool sessions is not always conducive to progress.
double float !
a paddle with floats on both ends eliminates the ‘instructor’
an underlying reason for negative discussion
I’ve used the paddle float
to teach people the hip snap. It enables the paddler to hold a near capsize position, but keep their head in a comfortable place (at, but not below, water level).
I’ve only done this a few times and only with paddlers who have some of the mechanical elements of the roll working, but just fail to time the hip and paddle motion.
Using the paddle float for the entire roll will, I agree, tend to condition folk to rely on paddle leverage rather than the body motion to execute the roll.
Those who self-teach a roll, as it seems this poster may be, often end up with an incomplete understanding of what needs to be done and when. Many believe the paddle motion, not the hip snap is the most important element of the roll.
Due to back injuries, I have more hip mobility on one side than the other, and thus have a much better roll on one side. When performing a roll on my left, I do have to really execute the paddle motion well to bring the boat to a near capsize position and then drive the boat down and under my butt with the hip (the boat is usually at, or just beyond, perpendicular to the water). Often, I have to add some sculls on that side to finish the motion. It isn’t smooth, it isn’t perfect, but it works. If one needs this type of adaptation to the skill, it is unlikely one will develop same when using a paddle float.
Rick
That’s EXTREMELY FUNNY
I concur!
sponsons!
– Last Updated: May-16-14 2:16 PM EST –
Hopefully you don't use inflatable surrogates in your personal life.
In case you are that thick…
No one is taking your double paddle float junk seriously.
This is a mental issue, not a language problem.
I agree the poster is a nutbag…
…and probably just trolling…BUT…one of the best Greenland rolling practitioners in this country teaches with double paddle float…very successfully.
Point may be that he teaches
As opposed to video from heck only knows who.
The GP can be a different feeling if coming from a Euro, since its buoyancy is spread out so differently. And it is not unheard of for the Greenland folks to teach from a static brace as a distinct point in the roll. I can see some arguments for doing this with a GP depending on approach.
Not with a Euro blade - if the paddle is the issue IMO it produces a better result to ditch the paddle and start with objects to aid a hand roll. In hindsight, I realized that would have worked better and a whole lot faster for me.
further…
A roll or brace instructor holds your kayak helping your roll to completion ?
How do we coordinate your uncoordinated moves with the instructor’s boat flip ?
Where is the feedback from your more successful towards rolling moves…coming from ? How would your nervous system differentiate the instructor’s motions from your motions ? As a learning process ?
Do we learn C-2 then C-1 ? Is ice dancing easier as one or with a stranger as partner ?
With the double float exercise you lean out into the water supported with a float at both ends paddle then hip snap.
After 30 minutes snapping, remove the bag float then practice rolling your new stage hip snap.
Take a break to learn where your hull stabilizes leaned over.
Try bracing practice from the double float float.
So why are paddlers working with instructors who help them roll the boat by grabbing one end ?
I guess they’re stupid.
A paddle float is handy for rescue
and for feeling the kinesthetics of getting your paddle on top of the water. Before I had failure after failure because of a diving blade that never started on the surface, before experiencing the position ( with the crutch ) of the float for one time. Not the whole roll , just the set up position.
Then the float bag went back in the cockpit. Period.
BTW no instructor has EVER grabbed my boat.
Seems you want to muscle the boat up. Rolls don’t work like that.
you’re taking this too personally
IMO if it works do it. If one needs paddle floats to help a particular student learn a roll, and the student doesn’t rely on those paddle floats to the point it retards their mastering of a roll - more power to you.
Surely you can see the point to caution against the floats being a crutch. You don’t have to invent a narrative to support your viewpoint.
?
The suggested exercise is superior to other teaching methods.
A significant response percentage suggests significant misanalysis by the posters of basic rolling mechanics.
But they roll ! and so understand rolling …we lump instructors into this area.
there
is No “ONE” method that works for everyone…sorry, one size doesn’t fit all
Best Wishes
Roy
BTW…I don’t flip another persons kayak to have them learn a roll…that is akin to throwing a child off of a pier in order to teach them to swim…very little that is good can be accomplished with that.
Muscle Up?
You shouldn’t need or want to “muscle up”. A good roll is technique and timing driven. Any good instructor will help you get to this.
I never needed 'em
– Last Updated: May-17-14 4:29 PM EST –
Like the majority of the class, I got my roll first pool session. We had good instructors. You could tell they were good because they had a nice bag of instructional tricks to resort to for people who didn't get it as easily, although I don't remember a paddle float and I don't remember anyone grabbing boats.
The comments you've made lead me to believe that you went through a bad instructional experience. And your conjecture that using paddlefloats is the superior method is merely that.
DOUBLE PADDLE FLOAT ROLL PRACTICE
The double paddle float exercise posted promoting the efficacy of the drill. Needs a video standing off Utube.
My experience with roll instructors is negative….minus negative. A clueless group.
I rolled up first time try with a paddle float but the snap was weak, badly timed with paddle motion leaving a push off the float THEN a vestigial second snap with head in wrong direction.
The balance brace discovered on Utube:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kayak+balance+brace+practice
Tried the B Brace….comfortable giving the idea of balancing off paddle with floats at the ends. I would practice hip snapping, learn the Solstice lean angles, and move into roll practice with the foam float.
The double float allows a learning paddler freedom to lean out ONTO and ON the water holding the paddle at 90 degrees with an outstretched arm.
Immediate success developing coordination. A hip snap workout using comparative hip snap analysis watching Ford’s roll video animation fed into the best roll yet.
The Solstice was lightly loaded with MSR 10L water bags on keel as in the water bags post found herein. I had developed ‘strength, fluid movement’ hip snapping off a pilates ball with a weighted steel pipe for paddle.
There is no float dependence here. FD surfaces as a concern. With snap practice preceeding roll practice, snap motion brings the kayak up not dependence on float buoyancy. Like so:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=greenland+kayak+hand+roll+throwing+stick
A poster dismissed the double float practice as a minor element in a universe of more effective exercises…without writing what ex…but we disagree.
Like back flips, the nervous enervation, muscular coordination are specific to back flipping. As are the exercises leading to learning back flipping. The field is limited. There are many strength ex but coordination ex are few.
The double float ex maxes in here on all levels.
A learner will naturally move into aggressive brace practice following snap and balance double float experience.
The new paddler can reach out n float watch osprey sail by, blue sky clouds, whispering sea winds…and SNAP !