I was advising a learner roller on how I was learning but my experience wasn’t shared by expert kayakers.

Have not read of similar or watched on Utube nor experienced the double float practice taught by experienced kayak instructors.

I watched Ford’s rolling video. The animation is excellent for comparing then adjusting your motions to the animation.

Exercised with a weighted steel pipe sitting on a Pilates Ball. Strengthen muscles for the Ford twist.

I did not practice a hip snap. Wayne Horodowitch of USK has a valuable bracing clinic video where Wayne suggests hip snap practice on a lawn while in a kayak. Not my kayak. Use Wayne’s.

The muscle motion without a hip snap pulls your body out of the kayak !

I have a Backup roll aid while learning. The Backup backs up a good roll.

I was impressed by Utube video of a half capsize with paddler floating on his back n pfd. I bought a foam paddle float to partner the inflatable float on board.

Leaning over into the half capsize with paddle floated at ends, down into the water with paddle in surface roll start position, I swept paddle, hip snapped, rolled up first try.

Hip snap practice. Roll analysis while actually for real rolling.

Try this.

My Solstice Titan is equipped with a water bag weighted keel description found in this forum. The Titan designed for touring needs ballast.

You may add weight for practice or touring with water bags. A steel rod or 2 taped down on the keel onto a clean surface with quality duct tape would hold for practicing.

Way too complicated.
Get Eric Jackson’s rolling video or get some competent instruction.

Is there a question here?
If so I missed it.

There are several good videos for teaching someone to roll. A class is best but if that’s not available then a video DVD might help you. Since I roll with Greenland sticks not sure what is a good video for euro paddle guys. You might also try video recording yourself to help you compare to a DVD video to see how you differ from what the DVD shows you to do.

Other than that not sure how anyone here can help you. Assuming that was the question which Iam still not sure if there was a question ?

learn to roll double paddle float
The double float hip snap and roll practice is a method not a question.

Immediate availability for hip snap practice on the water from a lay over brace supported by the floats transistioning into roll tries…

goes beyond current roll instruction.

I haven’t found videos. Suggest a link ?

It goes beyond current lessons because…
in many cases, the person learns to rely too much of the paddle float and muscles up. So it holds them back from getting a reliable roll in normal conditions.

I am not going to argue percentages, but there is a sound reason for the lack you see. That said, there IS video by Wayne Horodowich demonstrating a roll up with a paddle float.

That’s if I understand exactly what this post is about to start with - I confess to not getting why it was posted on the first few reads.

rolling advice and suggestions
Where is the Horodowitch or Jackson video ?

Muscle up ? Rely on ?

I assume if this method is practiced beyond rolling with a paddle, the practitioner could learn rolling with hands no paddle.

I think you have all been had … LOL

Seem a bit robotic to anyone?

$Run Go buy a video

Eric Jackson

Rolling and Bracing


– Last Updated: May-10-14 11:40 PM EST –

a) Agreeing with seadart by now
b) If OPer is real and you need help finding anything by Wayne Horodowich or SKA on the web (including probably on this site), you certainly are hurting on background to advise anyone on how to roll.

Regardless, I don't have a clue what the OPer is talking about at this point. Sentence structure does have a purpose...

You should read his posts at SKM’s
…website, if it still exists.

Must be some good drugs.

no find
No, I looked. Jackson Roll and Brace as a search subject doesn’t lead from a double paddle float.


The concept is transistion. You are in water, lean over onto the double paddle floats then practice HIP SNAPPING…backed with analysis from Ford’s animation that is stoppable/repeatable.

From the same position and probably relatively dry with a tight spray cover set, you try rolling from your hip snap development.

I’m salty but lacked practice. I rolled with the foam float first try after hip snapping 5-6 times.

My experience with ‘roll instruction’ is total loss. No value.

If you have a drug problem you should switch to beer.

Jackson ?
searching JACKSON KAYAK VIDEO doesn’t relate to double paddle float roll practice…cool photos of the Upper Cowlitz tho…

So surprising that you did not profit from instruction…

what Dr. Disco said

– Last Updated: May-12-14 9:57 AM EST –

Just my opinion but I like to try and keep it simple and as far removed. This reads like learning a good golf swing, which always paralyzes me.

The hip snap in the grass or sand thing is effective because it removes fear of immersion. To reinforce this, move to the water and use a partner or pier for support. Works great with a swim mask and snorkle: tell the student to keep facing the bottom while working that hip twist (I think calling it a "snap" is misleading).

I'm no instructor but I tell people that when they land a few, they'll grasp how natural and reflexive the motion is. So you can usually spot what's keeping them from getting it. A paddle float does help but at some point you have to remove it. Maybe the problem in your case is not the instructor, but the quality of instruction, or the presence of fixed notions in the students' head.

flashback from the sea kayaker forum
But this is much more understandable than previous posts from the old sea kayaker magazine forum(RIP). The old stuff read like some serious drug addled ramblings from the 60’s.

As far as learning with a paddle float or back float. I don’t know any instructor who is going to teach that. This would encourage using the flotation to bring you up and not teach the roll at all. They teach by standing in the water next to your boat and guiding you and your paddle through the motions. Starting with finding your balance with a balance brace, and moving from there to a roll. I’ve done this and seen it done countless times.

I’ve heard of it being done
I knew a paddler who said an instructor taught him to roll up using a paddlefloat. As far as I know, he never progressed beyond that.

At least two other people (not instructors) told me I had the option of using a paddle float when I was learning to roll. I said no thanks.

But it shows that there are (or used to be) some people who used that method.

As a well-known big dumb guy,
I taught myself c-1 roll and later kayak roll on my own, no paddle floats, and only a bit of hip snap drill. I guess I was just lucky to stumble onto it. It’s hard for me to understand all the stuff about paddle floats, dry land rolling trainer things, etc.

You need a clear idea of what you’re going to try to do. The best paddle float is the naked paddle blade. And I guess you may benefit from being a klutz like me.

people are different
So it’s best to have options to resort to when teaching. The onshore exercise gets some of them over a psychological hump.

I would bet a 100 kroner
that Datakoll speaks English as a second language, and his cradle tongue is Scandanvian. So cut him a coil or two of slack, eh?:slight_smile:

And if I do want to learn…
I like to wander off on the water on my own, but it makes my husband insane. He is worried some bass boat is going to tip me over with a killer wake. I promised I would learn to roll, but am having a hard time finding instruction in my area. I live in Morristown TN (between Knoxville & tricities) and am willing to drive a couple of hours if I have to. Can anybody recomend a good instructor? Or even one that would return my calls or emails?


Rolling Instruction
If you go here http://www.americancanoe.org/?page=Find_Instructors

you will find a complete list of American Canoe Association instructors by state and discipline. It lists their name, location, what they teach, and how to contact them. Look for an L4 or L5 white water (or sea kayak) instructor who is close enough for you to get to. It wouldn’t hurt to contact someone 3 or 4 hours away, they may be willing to meet you somewhere in the middle for a lesson. Rolling is a great skill but it is fun all on its own. Good luck!