I Agree
Simple and fewer steps is great. Light boats are great. Now here’s where I disagree… a petite person trying to muscle a light kayak all at once up onto a tall vehicle on a windy day is a recipe for disaster. Personally, I always move my boat on and off my truck one end at a time. No mats. I carry my boat at waist level. No carts.
In short, regardless of the boat’s weight, Finesse = less risk of injury and ‘strong man weight lift’ = more risk of injury.
What Celia said…
Since it has been referred to a good bit in the above thread, I should add a consideration or two to my approach. First, the up and down from the rear works a lot better on a hatchback or wagon than a sedan. I always forget about that because I haven’t had any use for a sedan for a couple of decades now anyway.
But - what I said still works with a sedan with the most apt of the following tweaks:
Get or make up an extender bar that goes out to the side of the car a couple and a half feet from the rear crossbar, and can be secured well to then or something else on the roof so it’ll hold weight. Slide the boat up onto that then shift it to its final resting place. I think this is probably by far the easiest with stackers or foam block rather than saddles, to eliminate lifting at the end. And yeah, it probably also requires a third party rack to get a solid rear cross-member or a good talent at jury-rigging stuff in the shops, but eventually at everyone gets a rack anyway…
Or slide it up onto the roof from the ground to the side between the front and rear cross members, and turn it as you lift so that the front comes to rest on the front rail and as it approaches that moment lift and walk the stern of the car around to the back. (again, longer probably makes this easier). This option may call for running a line from the bow and under the rack on your near side so that you can’t accidentally overshoot the distance and end up pushing the boat over the car and to ground on the other side. But with blankets and foam to protect surfaces it should work. Reverse for the dismount.
Granted I rarely lack help these days, but I did spend considerable time hauling a 17’ ft sea kayak out to a pond by myself on Thursday nights trying to get a roll. I was really slow getting one. Before that phase ended I had gone thru the routine with both a plastic sea kayak and a glass one…
I did look for places with a spot of soft grass behind the car…
yup-sure can roll the Tampico 135S
I learned to roll in my 135S and the fit is great after I added another thin layer of foam to the molded in coaming thigh hooks. Don’t let anyone talk you into a longer, heavier boat! It really frosts me when bigger, stronger people chime in with advice for us when they don’t have the issues we do and me thinks they simply want everyone to buy a sea kayak. Unless you are regularly hauling camping gear-you’ll be better able to paddle, turn, edge and load some of the choices in the 13-14 foot range that are 22-24 in wide with lower decks.
Perimeter lines?
I hadn’t seen that your Tampico was the 135S, and I’ve probably seen some of the older models in this line around here.
That said, the 135S shows no perimeter lines on Hurricane’s web site. Is that an error or is it really set up that way? I wouldn’t start to recommend a boat without full perimeter rigging to someone contemplating ocean, especially offshore up here in the northeast like the OP’er. From the site pictures, it looks like the Tampico 140S is the only one with a prayer of fitting and with full perimeter lines.
Also, I won’t argue that a heavier than necessary boat is a joy to move around. However, the OPer lists Maine as a place to paddle, where we have spent summer vacations and paddled out of for some years now. A layup that can’t take an occasional unplanned landing on rocks won’t survive most of that coastline, and you see a lot of plastic or regular fiberglass/gel coat boats up that way because the first are indestructable and the second are very repairable. I don’t know about the Hurricane layups and that shoreline.
No comment of the SOF’s there - I know enough people who have built one to know that their strength can be tweaked.
side bars
the after market racks work well with the extended side bar.
not much jerry gigging as all you need do is take the end cap off the thule or yakima rack and stick a length of rod in.
I did make a small mistake when discribing mine. It was not aluminiun but something a little more expensive. ( a friend found it for me )
the rod I used extended 2 feet beyond the car and i taped a rubber ball onto the end of it to stop the boat from slipping and stop the rod scratching the car if they touched.
“i used to use an aluminium pole to hold one end of my old boat (glass capella) while i lifted the stern up and then put the bow onto the saddle.
the aluminium rod slid into the bar of my thule rack and the extended part of the rod was what held the boat while i worked. the rod is then taken out ans put in the back with my paddles. it was the same length as the take down paddles.”
at 14 feet boats are likely going to be very slow; the mystic is not to bad.
for goodness sake don’t get stuck with some form of a rec boat if that is not what you want.
if cilia paddles a 17’ boat, i a 16.5’ boat most other paddlers will be in the same type of craft, you may have trouble keeping pace.
sometimes there are good deals on used boats. ws arctic hawk for example is out of production but you may get one for a good price. they came in kevlar and weighed about 35 lbs. one of the ladies here has one and i can hardly keep up with her. she is much older than me too.
Yep, finesse & technique are very
helpful, whatever the boat. Sometimes it’s taken me several outings before I fine tune the gear and techique for getting a particular boat to and from the water. I’m still not completely satisfied with my methods for the 55 lb boats, which are gel coated and scratch easy.
I am blessed to have a relatively low sedan, rather than an SUV or van to load the boats on.
I often paddle for only 45 minutes to an hour before work, so I usually take a boat that’s minimal hassle to load and unload, so I don’t cut into my paddling time too much and don’t have to keep too much loading and unloading apparatus in the car. Since I bought a used 30 lb solo canoe last month, it’s been getting quite a bit of use. It’s much easier to move around, load and unload than my 45 - 55 lb boats. I also wouldn’t expect it to take as much abuse as my heavier boats when in the water.
I’ve witnessed women using some pretty complex, involved and interesting techniques for loading and unloading heavy boats. Sometimes the effort is worth it if you really love the on-the-water handling of the heavier boat.
Magnetic sign material for protection?
I’ve wondered if that magnetic sign material that you see on business vehicles and used for refridgerator magnets would work for sticking on vehicles for loading / unloading vehicles, rather than carpets that can get blown around when it’s windy. Anybody tried this?
Shorter boats
– Last Updated: Oct-06-08 6:16 PM EST –
There are definately sub-16 ft or barely over boats for smaller paddlers that can keep pace with guys in a full length sea kayak, at least as long as the paddler has a good forward stroke. The problem that new paddlers tend to have with these boats is that, being sized for average sized and smaller sized women usually about 5'4" or less, they are also much narrower than the typical "stable" first boat that paddlers first find comfortable. As has been mentioned above though, that initial comfort turns to I wish "I had a faster boat" real fast - usually well before the end of the first summer.
The Arctic Hawk is a fast go-straight boat, the Sparrow Hawk is a version closer to this poster's size, with a little more stability the Vela hits a wall but very is quick off the mark and there are other newer ones out there I simply haven't spent seat time in. But they require a leap of faith from a new paddler that they can learn to be comfortable and feel secure in the boat. They will not feel that way at first.
It's absolutely worth it to make that reach if the paddling goals include bigger water like the ocean. The skills needed to handle a "tippier" boat are the same ones that will be needed to handle bigger water conditions safely. (and I hate that term - boats don't tip usually, it's the people in 'em that do)
The problem is finding that sweet spot - challenging enough to make you grow, but not so darned difficult that the entire first paddling season is an increasingly discouraging round of unplanned swims. Unless someone has a pretty high degree of natural athleticism, it seems that lots of demos and rentals and winter pool sessions and/or outside basic lessons are the best way to know when a boat hits that happy balance.
Don’t rule out a folder
I had a Pakboat Puffin 12’ last year that I took on 2 travel trips. Weight of kayak was about 28lbs. and it’s performance greatly exceeded my expectations. I took it down some Class II water including rough rocks, gravel, and hit a few submerged limbs…not a scratch, just a few scuff marks and I weigh 210. Sold it in a weak moment to a female friend as she loved it. At some point I will get another. Oh and it’s priced at the $750. level…fine quality,performance and easy to assemble…just a thought. See www.pakboat.com
Some thoughts ,
I’m in the same position, a 5’2" woman with a bad back to boot. Plus, I have a lifted Jeep Wrangler with a soft top and I like to paddle alone a lot so lifting a kayak onto the roof isn’t an option.
At first I bought an inflatable Advanced Elements Advanced Frame kayak and loaded the bag onto a cargo rack that slid into the receiver on my Jeep’s rear bumper. It only weighed 35lbs and I only had to lift it as high as the Jeep’s bumper but I found that an inflatable is a bit of a pain in the butt to live with. I had to blow it up (which didn’t help my back any) and deflate it after every use.
So when funds permitted I bought a Trailex kayak trailer
http://www.trailex.com/viewprod.cfm?action=add&pn=SUT-200-S&pr=870&pid=150&id=63&mcat=85&cat_id=85
It’s not cheap at $850 but it’s a very lightweight trailer, being aluminum and it makes life SO much easier. I now have a plastic P&H Capella 160, (16’4" long) which actually isn’t all that heavy at 51lbs but I couldn’t imagine lifting it to the roof of any car. With the trailer I just use a dolly to put it in and out of the water. It’s a snap to take on and off the trailer. I just put the dolly on one end, line the kayak up and pull off or on on up to the trailer.
Best of all, when I’m not paddling I just leave the kayak on the trailer so it’s always ready to go. I clean it and store it on the trailer when I’m done and when I want to go for a paddle I pull the trailer w/kayak out and hook it up to the Jeep and drive away. Even with the kayak on the trailer it’s all very lightweight and easily maneuvered.
I guess the downside is that you have to deal with a trailer but judging from the amount of boat owners who use a trailer I don’t see it as a big deal. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
Just another option…For me it was the ONLY option.
14’ boat slow?
– Last Updated: Oct-06-08 8:51 AM EST –
It depends on the paddler. My wife -- who's 5'0" and not very strong -- was significantly faster and happier after trading her 16' x 22" boat for a 14' x 21" boat that fit her properly. Less beam, less depth, less windage and less weight meant more speed, endurance and fun.
sorry
that was a generality.
your wife’s new boat is 1" narrower likely fits her much better and is i suspect a little lighter so it will move much less water.
i mentioned the mystic because i paddled that kayak for a month and it was like a white water boat but very fast.
the 14’ mystic was a good fit for me but i could not carry anything in it.
aside from a small hatch issue i am almost 140 lbs. add 30 pounds of gear, dry suit, pump, tow rope, spare paddle, some safety gear, a litre of water and a lunch; she was low in the water.
back to topic. i could almost throw the mystic on top of a car.
as a rule all the same 16" is the shortest boat i would buy for my type of paddling. i paddle in british columbia, scotland, nova scotia and newfoundland. i do some camping once or twice a year and a little instructing. as such i likely need a larger boat than your wife.
Yes angstrom
and less Frictional Resistance = smaller engine go faster than if small engine in longer boat. This is apparently extremely difficult for some folk to comprehend.
small & light kayak
I like the Impex Mystic very much for someone your size. It’s also a very used friendly kayak for a beginner
– but that does not mean you will grow out of it as you progress. It performs very nicely for all paddlers of all abilities. Available in fiberglass, kevlar, and carbon kevlar.
–Alison
Like Alison said
plus now in K-Lite ultra light carbon kevlar bringing the weight in to 33lbs with the Valley Hatches (which aren’t light) on.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
Oh, btw; Alison for anyone who didn’t know;
http://goingtogreenland.com/
Should’ve seen her performance at ECCKF in Charleston this past April!
Here we go again
You can spent money for the extremely light ultra-carbon-kevlar something or other, or get hullavator - I posted the link to youtube.
And, you can spent what you saved on getting a decent paddle - something else that everybody tends to ignore - and decent gear.
Mystic is excellent
– Last Updated: Oct-06-08 5:12 PM EST –
and small women tend to go "faster" in it cuz it's drag profile is such that their small engine can drive it faster. It's in no way less capable in big seas than a 16 ft. + boat and a hell of a lot easier to manage in a 20+ knot wind for a small paddler.
The so called primitive folk understood this stuff and built a kayak around the engine based on paddler body size / weight! The white guys just do what the brochure says...long is fast so tiny woman go struggle in a barge that's way too big for you.. News Flash: Small, low powered paddlers WILL NOT keep up with stronger paddlers no matter the boat. Best case scenario is to make what strength they have go further. Folk focus on Potential Speed of hulls, NOT realistic speed of a given engine in said hull. Ya gotta start with the power "supply" and match the craft to that, just like a paddle, ski's, etc.
Learn to pack whatever boat is appropriate, and you'll be way happier. Engine, boat, gear in that order.
Boy is Salty right!!
As someone who’s considered to be a smaller paddler, I saw the light when I spent a lot of time horsing an ExplorerLV around in surf and was told by a coach to go back to a smaller boat. While I love my big NDK and will keep it, I tend to spend 99% of the time in my RomanyLV, which is very manageble and manueverable, especially for those times when I’m tired and not always on the mark.
However, I’m not a fan of kevlar boats, although I’ve had one. I find them too light although there are times when I’m hefting the Romany that I’d be willing to trade all that Welsh gel coat for something a lot lighter.
I’d also believed that length = speed until I came to the realization that my Vela, at 15’9", was faster than the ExplorerLV. And while the Romany is not the fastest in the pack, I’ve also worked very hard on my forward stroke to maximize my speed and efficiency. I’m a Ben Lawry groupie and it has shown in my boat handling, as has working out/Pilates to maximize my strength and stamina.
Can I keep up with the guys in their 17’6" boats? Am I supposed to? Is it that important? There’s a reason women finish at different times in races.
As for the Impex Mystic: that is one sweet boat. I’ve always liked it for its nimbleness and speed.
Gotten into an Avocet LV?
I rented one for a Saturday paddle. Strike me with lightening I guess, but if I had to pick today between a Romany LV or an Avocet LV I’d go with the latter. You might want to give it a shot for comparison’s sake.
Not a point at the moment because I like aspects of my Vela better than both of them for the way I use it, but I was happy to find that the boat is quite nice and (glory hallelujiah) completely corrects some of the issues I had with the full sized Avocet. Except for how close the seat back is to the rear coaming, but a foam seat would fix that.
Ben is terrific…
– Last Updated: Oct-07-08 2:26 PM EST –
You experienced "reality" based on science, not emotion and bad info. The result was more efficiency and fun. Same reason you size a paddle correctly! Kudo's to your coach whoever he/she was!
Avocet LV is a terrific boat as well!! Celia, I'd bet my 401K (shrinking as I type this)that over a long distance you would in fact be quicker in your Vela or an Avocet LV than you would be in your Explorer based on your size and my guess (based on your past commentary) about your power supply. This especially true in bigger seas and wind.