From what I read, this is a new model. Anyone paddled it?
I’m near or at the upper weight limit for it (have seen it given as 110 lbs and as 120 lbs) and a little low for the next size up (the Remix 58). The 58 is something like 25" wide, so I really would prefer not to go that route. The 47’s cockpit size is nicely small, too. I’ll try to find one to actually sit in at least.
From the description (caveat emptor), it sounds like a good all-around WW kayak. I’d be interested in hearing from anybody who has actually paddled it. I’d be taking it mostly to a park-n-play BUT for moving-water practice, not to do flips, cartwheels, etc. (at least, that’s my initial intention).
From what I read, this is a new model. Anyone paddled it?
low on whitewater boaters here
you might want to ask your question in boatertalk
Remix is more of a creeker
I paddled one for a while and traded it for a Prijon Chopper. The Remix has a very high deck and is cavernous inside. I bought it for whitewater river camping but didn’t enjoy continuously hitting my paddle shaft on the front deck and sides. Liquid Logic boats have always been too box-like in my opinion.
I think the Wavesport Diesel is a much better all around river runner. I paddled one for couple years and still miss it. Simply an all around well mannered boat. The Diesel 65 will fit you just fine. I traded up from the Diesel to get more room for camping gear and a little faster downriver boat. The Chopper is about 1/2 to 1 mph faster than any other river runner I’ve paddled, and has more than enough room for overnight camping kit. Would be a bit large for you I think.
Which size Remix did you paddle?
They have one that’s even bigger than the 58 (64 or 65?). The only one I’m interested in is the much, much narrower 47.
The 47 is supposedly for very small people, including kids. Weight ranges of either “45 to 110 lbs” or “40 to 120 lbs”.
I’m also at the upper end of the size range for the Remix 47 and would also be interested in hearing anyone’s opinion of it. It looks like a great kayak. I’d love to try one but there’s no place near me that has one. I have a Jackson fun 1.5 and its a great little kayak but something with a little more foot room and a little more forgiving would be great.
As always, it would reallly help
for you to paddle one before you buy. The Remix 47, 59, 69 and 79 are just different sizes of the same design. The 59 would be the correct size if you are at the top end of the 47. Go to http://liquidlogickayaks.com/
and click on the River tab. At the bottom of the screen the Remixes are lined up at an oblique angel and it is much easier to see the boxy shape. On the side of the kayak the name Remix is at the top corner of the box. That corner is where you will be continually hitting the hull with your paddle shaft and knuckles. Inside the box your knees are spread way apart to connect with the thigh braces. Not a very comfortable position for all day hard use. Some paddlers have noticed the boxy Remix is harder to roll.
Now go to http://www.wavesport.com/diesel-65 and look at the side of the kayak. The name Wavesport is very near the center of the side and you can see the top half of the side slopes back towards the center, leaving a very graceful area for easy paddling. The thigh braces fit good, and comfortable for all day hard use. The 65 would be the right size for you, too.
Both the Remix and the Diesel 65 are 25" wide, but the upper part of the sides on the Diesel are sloped adequately for easy paddling without hitting your knuckles on the top corner of the side. The rounded side lets this boat roll easily, too.
Jes my 2 cents, and it’s worth every penny:)
Here’s a look at these river runners
in action....this is the Coastal Canoe Club in Virginia. The river is the Bullpasture, high in the Allegheny Mountains near Headwaters, Virginia. It's a gorgeous river don't you think?
The trip was led by Ken Dubel, cruise director for Coastals and the video is by John Hamill. The trip was January 13, 2008.
By the way, it's a really bad idea for the swimmer to stand up after exiting his boat in rough water like that. Better to float out feet up and let the safety boaters go get his kayak.
If you like the Fun
You might want to look at the new Hero:
All-new this year -- apparently like a stretched Fun with more volume and more forgiving edges. The Sidekick is a hair over 22" wide.
Have you tried the Mamba 7.5?
I sat in the Fun 1.5
I had to take the hip pads out, which was quite a change from the usual sitting-in-a-barrel feeling I get. But I fit in it.
But I agree that the foot space is tight. I don’t think I’d like that boat for long sessions. It felt like my feet were forced to be pointing forward and inward.
Good luck in your search. After I return from my winter getaway trip, I plan to try a Remix 47 for size. There is at least one dealer in Colorado. If I get a chance to actually paddle one, I’ll post about it in here.
Don’t like the wide splayed legs
I'm not getting a 25" wide boat (i.e., the 59). Even the ones that are a little narrower already force my legs out too wide. I also hate their huge cockpits. What is the sense of being snugly ensconced yet having enormous cockpits? I don't get that.
You said of the Remix: "Inside the box your knees are spread way apart to connect with the thigh braces. Not a very comfortable position for all day hard use." Agreed--but again, what size Remix did you paddle? Because the Remix 47 measures only 20.75" wide, there is no way it will force my knees to spread too wide. My sea kayaks are wider than that.
Shape of the box
I haven't sat in either of the boats that are mentioned, the LL Remix or the Wavesport Diesel, However, I looked at the pics and on a quick scan it appears to me that the Wavesport thigh braces may be positioned a little closer in. That may be what was being said.
Because of the way the side finishes upward around the cockpit in these WW boats, you can't necessarily transfer assumptions from sea kayaks to how you'll fit in the cockpit. These WW boats are super-designed and nuanced, with curves and shapes all over the place.
One thing to keep in mind is that they are both likely to be harder to roll than a well-fitting, low profile sea kayak. It's the nature of the WW boats, even the newer river runners, and something to consider. In order to get more easy rolling in a river runner, you may have to either go a good bit older or quite new in the design. In any case, given where you are coming from you should try to get to a boat that has relatively easy rollability for a WW boat.
As to the size of the cockpits in WW boats - I presume it is because, given how tight you are otherwise squeezed in there in river/play ior playboats, the cockpit has to be huge to assure an ability to wet exit. I have to say, if the cockpit in my Inazone 220 was any smaller it'd be a safety risk because of how tight everything else fits. As usual in even the newer boats, I can't wear shoes.
Celia gets it…
Pikabike, listen to Celia…
Standing in high currents…
Is a surefire recipe to get a foot caught, and pinned, while the current holds you under water until you… die.
Sorry, but true.
The reason for the large cockpit openings on whitewater boats to to make it easier to get out of the boat if it's pinned. One excercise we did in rescue class was to get in our boat and then have the boat secured to a wall vertically nose-down, simulating a pin after a drop. Then you try to get out. If you can't get your leg out and your foot onto the cockpit rim to push yourself up and out, it's almost impossible.
Your size again?
[Oops - I meant height. You gave your weight range.]
For the WW gurus here - I am remembering what I think is your size and it may be a little less than people here realize. Or I am wrong - but regardless it may be worth repeating.
More thoughts about the boat - if my memory is correct you'd find an Inazone 220 or 222 to be a good fit, and they are great schooling boats that'll do everything you need to get started in river runnning. I am thinking that if you go used for now, you can save cash for a boat with more playability later on.
Several years ago my 5’ wife was frustrated at falling out of the boats whenever she flipped in a pool class. We ended up with a Dagger Blast, which was a snug, secure fit for her.
One more consideration
Paddle length - you are likely to be recommended to one that is a bit shorter for WW than for long boating. So the shape of the boat up around the cockpit matters more in terms of its getting in the way.
Complete side note - if you haven’t worked on a roll in moving water, start that one early and often. It’s different - requires a good bit more equinamity down there than in less active water. As with everything re rolling, it took me a looong time to get to my first one in moving water.
Wavesport Fuse 36
Here’s another boat for lighter, smaller paddlers. It probably won’t work for you though since it’s 24-1/2 inches wide.
Apples and oranges
You cannot expect a WW boat to feel the same as a sea kayak. They are completely different craft. You will never match the foot room of a sea kayak and your toes will point forward in almost every boat. Even a WW boat that fits you perfectly will never allow your knees to be anywhere near vertical. I strongly recommend you buy a used boat if you can. There are any number of boats out there that will fit you. And the width of the boat is not necessarily an indication of fit.
Having said that, if you want a new boat, I recommend you call Jackson kayaks. Tell them all your dimensions, your intended use, and how experienced you are at WW kayaking. They will give you decent advice.
OK, that makes sense
Especially if the coaming gets buckled.
OTOH, I am much smaller than the average guy, so I still want a smaller-than-average kayak. Not some of these tall things I’ve sat in where my elbows might whack the coaming.