LL Coupe vs. Dagger Torrent

-- Last Updated: Sep-17-10 8:22 AM EST --

I'm not that experienced at whitewater. Did the Nantahala (big water for me) on an Aire Lynx I once owned. I've done the Lower Green NC quite a few times. Felt really comfortable and safe on my inflatables. Recently I purchased a Torrent, went to the Green and it was pretty much a secure feeling stable ride. I did turn it over surfing when moving out of it. The interior design with the "console like" raised area between your legs makes it difficult to exit by pushing your feet forward. It also has molded in footrests that does not stick out far enough to get a good foot hold. They added Keeper footbraces mounted above molded in footrests (which is to high and in my opinion creates an intrapment issue.). I asked company rep if this was an after thought to poor design and he said it was original design and with practice could push my feet against Keepers and clear my butt from the raise seat back area (6 to 8 inches)to exit. This seems to be a lot of work, clearing your butt and getting out of the thigh straps at the same time. (Sold it)Bought the LL Coupe, doesn't feel as stable when hitting rocks (wants to tip easily). Likes to hang up more. Took a swim in it to, but was easier to exit. They should have put scupper holes in seat area to stiffer hull. Concaved now (under seat area) from going over rocks. Sitting in puddle whole ride. These 2 boats are the only true WW sot's out there. All owners of these and of you who can relate, please give an honest opinion. Please no company responses!

You might want to give the Coupe more
time. The Torrent is more of a lowest-common-denominator SOT, friendly for first time/last time renters. So it gives away some handling. The Coupe is a very recent design by an outfit known for one successful WW boat after another. I think what you experience as unsteadiness and rock problems may turn out to go away with experience. This is a trade-off in all whitewater boats. You can have steadier, more predictable hulls, or you can go for more active control with hulls that trade away some stability for that increased active control.

want to know more, also
Dagger states up to class III. Some of LL video also said class III, but, I think some said class II.

Also, description of LL Coupe say 6 scuppers, but, some pics or videos clearly show 4. Prototype, maybe.

I thought I’d read of one other recent WW SOT, but can’t recall what.

do you have thigh straps
in the coupe? It would probably help. I went for a ride in the back of a friend’s duece coupe and (as you said for the torrent) I did not find the molded foot rests to be very helpful. A plastic boat is a different beast from an IK – I’ve never flipped an IK, but have flipped numerous times when trying a Torrent or that Duece Coupe in the same water. If I want to do anymore plastic, I need to work on bracing and other skills.

I actually thought the Torrent was the more active hull and as for rocks, the smaller grooves on the Torrent and also smaller scupper holes, it seemed to go right over them with no problem.

On the same page
with the bracing. I do have thigh braces. Transition from IK to hard shell is totally different animal.

6 scuppers
2 in cargo, 4 in front, none under seat which puddles.

Hadn’t taken the scupper holes into
consideration. But remember that the Torrent is a very old design, almost from another era. It is hard for me to believe that the Torrent has an edge in ww maneuverability, considering that the Coupe’s designers knew so much more when they did there work.

No offense

– Last Updated: Sep-17-10 10:41 PM EST –

but if you haven't paddled either of these boats, then commenting on age of hull design or what LL may have improved on doesn't really matter. What I experienced was two totally different boats. Each has good points. Neither is perfect.

That’s true, it is hard to judge a book
by its cover.

stay loose at the hips
I find it kind of hard to flip the Coupe… unless I intentionally lean my upper body too far over. it’ll tip pretty far before flipping, this is a good thing as it adds to its playfulness and maneuverability (and no plastic boat is going to slide over rocks the same way an inflatable does). you can sit sideways with your legs in the water and the Coupe tipped on edge, even stand on it if you have good balance. I’ve stepped out onto fallen trees blocking the creek, dragged the boat over and stepped back in.

did you get the optional seat? the deluxe seat raises you a couple inches for a drier ride. but, a SOT kayak and staying dry in whitewater aren’t really on the same page.

Yes, I got

– Last Updated: Sep-19-10 10:29 PM EST –

the Deluxe seat, but without scupper holes under seat and the water this area collects,it sort of takes away the D from the DVC seat, don't you think ?