Looking for a replacement for my Cetus

I am going to sell my Cetus soon and replace it with a longer boat that has speed, multi-day size, good sea manners, and a decent roller (I know that these needs are almost mutually exclusive). I own a Aquanaut LV RM, Nordkapp Jubilee, SOF, and the Cetus. I enjoyed the Cetus, but feel that my weight is not ideal for the design. To make the boat a better roller I moved the seat forward and that caused tracking issues for me. I am 6’3" and 245lbs. I have my eye on the Impex Outer Island (probably not big enough), the Boreal Labrador (total unknown), and the QCC 700 (maybe too big and high back deck not good for rolls) and finally the Greenlander Pro. I am not looking for swede form. My questions could be is the OI too small?, anyone know much about the Labrador?, is the QCC 700 slightly single focus like I view the Epic? , who loves the Greenlander Pro as I know those who like it and none who love it. I don’t need to buy a new boat, but if I don’t my wife will get the money and I lose the potential to sell a boat and play with a new toy. I have no problem with seat removal to create a fit (OI?), and boats like the Explorer HV and the Capella 173 feel too big to me. Anyone feel like adding their 2 cents? Bill

Can comment on one
The QCC 700.

No, it is not a one trick pony like the newer version from EPIC. Those are essentially detuned race boats, intended mostly for fitness use (though you certainly can tour in them), whereas the QCC is an efficiency optimized gear hauler. It’s very versatile and capable in a wide range of conditions. Different feel (personality) than most Brit types - but I find the trade offs are mostly positive

Yes, the rear deck is a bit high of you’re ONLY roll is a very slow full layback type. Otherwise, it’s a very easy kayak to roll - with different types of rolls. I taught myself to roll in a 700, so how hard can it be? Most often I do a partial layback (moved my seat and can get back farther than I used to - but I don’t need a full layback, or any, to roll it. Learned using sweep to C and /or layback).

Why are you not looking for swedeform? Buying the BS about fishform(well. about all forms really)? Really handicaps you if you’re serious about only wanting certain types (Brit/fish?), as if you stick to those you’ll get boats that are not going to give you the speed and sea keeping you’re after IMO. Read this (long but good discussion: http://www.paddlewise.net/topics/boatdesign/pro-conswede.html

Bigger question to ask: Rudder? Sacrilege to some, and the QCC is OK with skeg (like mine) - but in kayaks like this where you’re getting above a certain LWL (700 is right in the line, or a bit past to be honest), not having one won’t cut it in some conditions. In a 700 you won’t need either much, but when you do, you’ll be damn glad you have something.

Anyway, to get a different paddling experience, you may need to change more than just the hull.

my two cents
Not much help but I have sat in a OI and at 195 pounds and 6 foot 2 I could not fit in it. It seemed the seat was already pretty low as well so I ruled it out for me.

The Labrador I have paddled once and it is a nice boat and very fast and comfortable but a bit big for me for day paddles. Probably perfect for expeditions.

Good luck,


Greyak, that reading makes my brain hurt
I may not have a good reason for saying I don’t want swede except to say that the boats I like are symetrical to slightly fish, the boats I have some complaints with have been swede and highly fish. Putting my 1/8 of a ton in a kayak that has its cockpit forward creates problems, primarily in tracking through rear quartering winds and surfing. I would like to have a longer composite version of my Aquanaut LV RM (Kapp I own ?). Thank you for your opinion, it is helpful. Bill

Have you tried a Kayajak Sport Millennium?

Your specs were

“longer boat that has speed, multi-day size, good sea manners, and a decent roller.”

Millenium does all those well, look at the Viviane, it’s even longer at 19’. Jcamry is a big guy and paddles a Millenium. I’m 6’ 180 and paddle one too.


Great suggestions. The Millenium looks
like it may be pretty close to the Nordkapp, but the Viviane looks very interesting. I will put it on the list. Probably in place of the Outer Island (Too small). Bill

I paddled an OI
I’m 6’3" and 220 lbs. It really depends on your build. I’m athletic cut with most of my weight in my torso and shoulders, but have skinny hips. My size 13 feet were not very comfortable and the shallow deck meant my legs were pretty flat, but I could get in and out and spend a day paddling.

Based on what you have, a TideRace Xplore might be fun to paddle, yet hard to find.


“Aquanaut LV RM, Nordkapp Jubilee”

– Last Updated: Mar-11-09 12:41 AM EST –

Don't you aleardy own a great pair in this one--playboat/dayboat and expedition, big water boat. Both rollers extraordinaire.

"... and replace it with a longer boat that has speed, multi-day size, good sea manners, and a decent roller."

Am I missing something, moparharn?

OI & option
For your size the OI is probably not going to fit your expedition use goals. Rolling it’s going to be fantastic. The OI fordeck height is 10.5" in the touring cockpit and a tad higher in the ocean cockpit (actually more comfortable for longer legged paddlers).

For the speed, cargo and manners that you’re looking for you might want to put a Force 4 or Force 5 (depending on thigh and shoe size) on the tryout list.

If you want to take a jaunt over to NY I have my Force 4 that’s looking for a home. (got a different colored one in for this year)

See you on the water,


The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY


No, not really. But I did say that I
want to keep the money in boats rather than see it get removed from my basket and put into you know whose basket. The Cetus fills an area in my quiver that the Kapp and Naut do not. I view the Cetus as a fast high capacity boat. If I am going to rack up the miles in moderate to fair conditions, it is a good choice. If the weather is moderate and worse, I like the VCP boats far more. At my weight, the Kapp is getting a decent load without gear, where the Cetus seems to handle the load better. I think I would like to try something that is truly fast, yet still has some Sea Kayak blood in it. That Viviane sounds really nice, but I think the V hull primary would get annoying. The QCC looks very interesting, but almost like a ski with a deck put on it and the rear deck height makes my back ache just looking at it. If the Cetus had it’s cockpit a few inches aft I would likely keep it. I need to test paddle the QCC 700, Boreal Labrador, and the Viviane if I can find them. I could see using a wing paddle with that QCC, but I would have to wear a disguise and paddle only at night for fear of upsetting my Greenland brothers. In the end it may really be more about trying to get excited about something fun during a tough time for me with the last few bucks I have left to play with(I really don’t have it to play with, I am a dog with a bone). Maybe I can kick start the economy? What a patriot! (QCC?) Bill

Force series

– Last Updated: Mar-11-09 11:22 AM EST –

Bill, your desired boat goals might be satisfied with an Impex Force boat. While test paddling the Force 4 several times, it felt like a relative of the OI but with better manueverability, larger hatch covers, more storage,and more cockpit room. The 5 was too large for me but might be great for yourself. If I swapped my OI for a 4 today, the things I would miss would be the lower rear deck and a lighter weight lower volume boat for partial day paddles.

Definitely check out a Viv…
…if you can big, fast, well mannnered…

V hull? You need to see in person/demo. Viv is very pleasant/predictable as far as stability goes - a little log like/less distinct transition than some that have more pronounced “flop” - but strong secondary none the less (QCC also).

Be very aware of outfitting issues as you search and demo - as it will make or break an otherwise great choice. Plan on modifying to optimize for you. I don’t remember the Viv seat (must have been comfortable) and it’s foot pegs were very large and comfortable (some have different types). QCCs come with a terrible seat pad/backrest combo. Works for some, but not many. Too casual oriented. I removed it and sit on the bare seat pan and added a narrow low back band. WAY better. Changes everything. Next I may go to more of a racing seat with a better rear lip and ditch the band too (it’s acting as a stop - not as back support anyway). Not having rudder, I also ditched the pegs and went to a full foam setup - which makes it really comfortable. Amazing how may common (back/comfort) issues are really from the small pegs most put up with. If I have (and may add) a rudder - I’d go with something like Pat/ONNO foot board. Small peg systems = torture (at least once you’ve used anything else).

Greyak, Thanks for the thoughts. I have
had to spend a fair amount of time outfitting my boats. The Naut LV RM required a trim of the plastic coaming inner lip near my sides and a mincell bulkhead (kept foot braces for others to use). The Kapp got a full mincell bulkhead (removed foot braces), seat bottom, and backrest (large enough to protect spine on layback over higher rear deck). The Cetus had its seat moved forward and braces removed with mincell bulkhead. Even the skin boat has a very low number seven beam and angled coaming lip. At my size every boat needs a modification. It’s funny, I still have yet to put a heel pad in any of my boats even though my heel is screaming when I get in. CD1 had a very good point about the Kapp and Naut I own, but I am not giving up my quiver size, that valve only seems to work in one direction. If the Vivian is as fast as the QCC and I can accept the primary, it would seem like I should check it out. If the QCC is clearly faster, then I might lean in that direction. All of these thoughts can change quickly with a paddle, or special opportunity, but I really enjoy hearing peoples thoughts. Thanks again. Bill

Nigel Foster Legend
seems to fit the bill, except maybe for a rolling boat (back deck is a tad high for a full lay back). I’ve not yet paddled the whiskey boats, but would suggest trying the whiskey 18 if there is a dealer in your area.

Cetus Replacement
Hi Bill,

You might consider a Rockpool Menai. We have some coming over from Wales this spring and most paddlers agree that this is a great expedition boat with very good manners in dynamic conditions. You can check it out at www.rockpoolkayaks.com


Looks like a nice boat with good
construction methods, but no way to demo it, nowhere to buy one within 3000 miles, and I have to beleive that it won’t be affordable for me either. I hope I am wrong because this is a nice looking boat. Thanks for the suggestion, I would never have known about it.


Take a look
This blog http://www.kayakquixotica.com/2009/03/04/made-in-usa/ claims that Rockpools are now made in NA.

Here is the site http://rockpool.reednorthamerica.com/index.php/Rockpool-Home

Disclaimer: - always trust the stuff on WWW