Loose Footpeg Rail on NDK???

-- Last Updated: Apr-07-07 9:55 AM EST --

Hey, another QC issue with my new NDK boat (add this one to the broken seat...and the pebbles or some other debris that is gelcoated into the seam)....I noticed the the foot peg rails are loose and wobbly. I tried tightening the screws down, but can't get them any tighter and the rail still is loose.

What is the best solution?

If I take them off do I need to put any kind of sealant on the screws/holes when I replace them in order to prevent leaking?



Take them off and put them back

You might try backing the screws out entirely and removing the rail, then put everything back together again. The rails are tapped to accept the screws and I imagine they could get cross-threaded. They can also typically have a black foam grommet between the rail and the side of the boat.

If the grommet is missing you could use something similar to cushion where the rail meets the side of the boat.

One other thought – if it’s not the entire rail that’s loose, it may just be there is some sand or debris in the tracks that are preventing the footpeg itself from seating entirely.

Another option is to remove the footpegs and just use foam blocks against the front bulkhead. You would still leave the rails in place, or cap the screws with a nylock nut and cover with a rubber cap so you tear up your feet/legs inside the cockpit.


loose rails
Check to see if your bolts have threads all the way to the head. If not ,you could be bottoming out on the bolt’s shoulder before getting the rail tight

Probably cross threaded
Pull em out, re-tap em with slightly larger thread size, and replace fasteners with high grade stainless.

Are you kidding??!!
This definitely speaks to a similar thread last month about shitty quality with kayaks out of the box and the consumer is just expected to fix it! NDK kayaks ain’t cheap, and to have to deal with ANY quality issues is just not acceptable! I’d have that boat back to the dealer pronto, and make THEM fix the damn thing. Do these manufacturers even HAVE a QC department??!! Or do they just not care? Come on folks, you wouldn’t accept a car, which is WAY more complex than a kayak, and expect to tighten down a few bolts, or reseat the windshield so it doesn’t leak, would you? So why do we as consumers let these manufacturers sell us $3000-$6000 kayaks that aren’t right, that have leaky hatches and bulkheads, loose fittings and poorly done seams? Get your act together NDK. For what you charge, this is UNACCEPTABLE!

ndk quality
Hey Matt, sorry to hear about GP problems. The

GP I picked up off of Tom seems pretty good,

seat seems solid & foot pegs. But the layup

seems light not very solid like my old pintail

or my ellesmere were. Those 2 boats were

bomb proof compared to GP. Gp seems to have alot

of flex in hull & decks, I guess time will tell.

I’am plaining on pulling seat & making foam

seat which will add alot of comfort over stock seat. 2 weeks I’am demoing nordkapp LV, may

have new boat soon.

Do you really need the footpegs?

– Last Updated: Apr-07-07 7:52 PM EST –

We've foamed out from the bulkheads in all of our boats, and it is hugely more comfortable. I don't even have rails installed in the Explorer LV - they are sitting in their new plastic wrap in a cabinet in our house.

I really dislike footpegs at this point - having done w/o them I now find them more difficult to paddle with.

The QC issues on the boat are a drag and shouldn't exist, and that is an issue it itself with the dealer and/or NDK. (It is possible that the rails were installed not at the factory but when the boat arrrived here.) But regardless I would suggest that the best fix lies in losing the darned footpegs in favor of foam blocks. (And deciding if you want to leave the rails in or pull them and patch the screw holes.)

I wonder…
Does anyone know why manufacturers don’t bolt the rails with appropriate length stainless bolts, washers and nuts to begin with? I have had the same problems with other rails due to crossed threading the screw and enlarging the holes.

radskierman, I agree.

– Last Updated: Apr-07-07 9:23 PM EST –

I couldn;t have said it better. Based on not only this thread, but the many like it over the years, I would never ever buy an NDK kayak. Period. Never. I don;t care how many This Is The Sea videos have them featured like a product placement.

Thanks, bowler1, for the info. I am sorry for your experience, but you have used it to once again educate us all. Other brands, such as Valley and QCC seem never ever to have these issues in general, and when they do, they fix it. I mean seriously, look back in archives and see other posts about broken seats and such for Nige Dennis. Ridiculous. I was considering a NDK GP as recently as two weeks ago from another nice Pnetter (it did not fit me), and now I have finaly come to the conclusion I would never buy one--an NDK.

Other manufacturers, such as Danny and Joe Mongno from Impex and Peter O from Valley, actually come on Pnet to see what others say about their product, and help refine it. Anyone ever see crap from Nigel Dennis kayaks on here?

I will leave it to my fellow paddlers--hey, bruce and yanoer and tsunamichuck and bbrasil and plastic1 and puddlejumper and sharonmb and trialmom and sedna and bohemia and texaslady-- if I ever consider an NDK, please come over, drag me out of my truck, and run me over. Done.

Yeah but
no boats out there perform like a NDK (at leat for me and I’ve paddled a few)

is this for real?
‘pebbles or some other debris that is gelcoated into the seam’

That blows me away-shock.

I guess its cheaper to give kayaks to people who make hot videos than to fix the process???

I’m glad I fell into a Valley years ago…

On the foot rails have you considered getting rid of them altogether and putting in a piece of foam, i think you’d like this better than the small slippery peg???

I actually like pegs believe it or not.

I will pull the rails and see about putting some washers or something else to take up the excess space.

My other concern with the loose foot peg rails is that due to the play it causes flex in the fiberglass at the bolt holes when you put pressure on the pegs…have checked it out by pushing on them with my hands. I am concerned that this could potentially cause the glass to crack or fail which would be a very bad thing!

As far as quality control…yeah some pretty crappy quality control, but luckily I was able to fix the seat pretty easily and the other issues are details for the most part. The boat as a whole is pretty decent, but these issues should still not exist. The seat breaking is not a quality control issue as much as it is an issue of a crappy component / design that the manufacturer is well-aware of yet does not fix. Doing so would have very little impact upon profit margin.

I really like the NDK boat, but the quality control issues are somewhat disappointing. They are supposed to build “expedition” boats, yet would you want to take a boat on an expedition that had so many QC issues that would result in likely failure?

This boat was a demo that I bought from a reputable dealer…he had it for less than a year and it had been on the water maybe 6 times total and I believe it…it was in like-new condition. So basically it was a brand new boat whose only real use has been in the last month. To be experiencing failures this soon is kind of BS.

I can say this…I have owned two Valley boats now. Both were several years old and had seen A LOT of use…HEAVY use. Neither of them experiened any failures of any sort during the time that I had them despite frequent and heavy use of my own.


kayak bling bling!

– Last Updated: Apr-07-07 10:56 PM EST –

When I buy a kayak I customize the heck out of it. I pull out the seat, back band, foot pegs, deck line, and carry handles. I bought my explorer because I really like the hull design. The other stuff is just trivial and the easier it comes out the better.

Sure quality control is an issue and the customer service is different than what we expect. Part of that is cultural and our expectations.

Personally I have seen more weak seams, cracked gelcoat, and other structural problems from other brands. I would rather have more attention put into hull design than into outfitting.

What’s this all about?
Look, NDK has been building crude, albeit sound boats for a long time. Dennis has contributed hugely to sea kayaking and has supported a lot of people. He is not a rich man.

So, you of all people knew the score about NDK, which is, some minor cosmetic issues, and a somewhat crude build, but an overall great kayak, which you have. BTW it’s second hand and I bet the dealer installed the footbraces!

Fix the seat and the pegs…1 hour’s work!! and go enjoy your kayak.

I paddled several thousand miles in an imperfect Romany, fixed my seat, and every couple of years had a composite pro go over the boat. I own tougher lighter boats for sure, but NDK’s track record is pretty solid. I don’t think Dennis spends much time at the factory.

Have you taken these concerns to the dealer, or NDK BEFORE posting them here?? I suspect not.

Tempests have 3 bolts and 3 nuts.

– Last Updated: Apr-07-07 11:48 PM EST –

Problem is they also have the lift rod for adjustments. Great for demo days. Not good in a capsize, including rescue practice and re-enter and roll. Lift rod will drop and foot braces will float back and forth on the rail.

I feel like I can get my feet into the stroke better with foot pegs, as they're solid. Maybe something to do with they're levering off the side of the hull, too. Not a comfortable as minicel though. However, the pegs in the Tempests don't adjust quite far enough forward for me, and I only have a 31" inseam. So I removed mine and put in minicel. I was paddling with a guy today who asked, "do your feet ever get numb?" I said, not any more!

But back to the topic, they got nuts :).

Paul S.

salty says,
“I don’t think Dennis spends much time at the factory.”

He really ought to. The lousy boats have his name on them.

salty’s right
The dealers install the NDK footbraces. And I suspect its “air bubbles”, not sand and pebbles, in the seam. Once cured, air bubbles could easily be mistaken for pebbles by someone who doesn’t know the glassing process. Not that its not a QC issue, just not as outrageous as originally thought.

Dont’ get me wrong…
I really like the boat. I guess I am making it sound like I am not happy with it…not the case. I really like the hull design, and as I said in one of the posts above, the boat the quality of the boat overall seems pretty good…devil is in the details.

I will deal with this stuff…I am not too worried about minor / cosmetic stuff, but think reliability is a paramount concern. Both of the problems I have encountered are reliability / potential reliability problems. Hopefully once I get them fixed there won’t be anymore (keep saying this about my truck too!)


Cognitive Dissonance
This thread is a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance.

Because Therapists are what, smart?
My mother’s calling. :slight_smile: