EUREKA!!!! Thanks to a very talented and very generous fellow P-netter, my roll has returned!! He shall remain nameless... if you too are in need of some expert mano-a-mano assistance to get a roll fixed, post here and ask for the guy that saved radskierman's roll... and passion for kayaking! If he's interested, he will contact you. And it will be the best thing that ever happened to your roll!
Actually, I have ditched my former piss poor technique (muscle up C-to-C roll), for an effortless, dare I say graceful, lay back sweep roll with my GP. Yesterday I went 25 for 25. Not a single attempt was even close to a miss. It's almost silly how much more reliable and easy this roll is compared to my C-to-C. And he really got me to working on doing a very committed high brace which helps a lot. And we worked on a sculling brace, which is still very much a work in progress. But I am making progress. I am soooo confident in my roll now, that working on moves that get me way out over the side of the boat are just not a concern. It appears that wet exits are a term that will soon be excised from my vocabulary, if they aren't already! Anybody want to buy a never to be used again Onnopaddle (euro style). A great paddle made to exacting quality by a class guy (I still can't for the life of me understand why anybody would buy an off the rack Werner paddle rather than a CUSTOM made Onno for about 60% of the price!!), but I am now a committed GP paddler, Thanks AM!!
By the way, thanks for all the helpful suggestions and words of encouragement to my original post,
Salty... I was very nearly ready to fly out west to take you up on your generous offer to help! I figured what the hell, I'll get my roll fixed and paddle someplace on my bucket list with a very knowledgeable paddler. Maybe some other time!
For all you paddlers that either think you can't or are intimidated to try to roll... NONSENSE!! It is ridiculously easy with the right attitude and maybe more importantly, the right instructor. Go for it... it opens up so many opportunities and adventures that otherwise are out of reach or unsafe to pursue.
Excellent!
Welcome to the dark side. 
Gary
Just got a GP
on the weekend. Looking forward to giving it a try.
Right teacher,right attitude,
Well done.
Yeah Man!
Exactly… congratulations!
Right attitude and right instructor is the key.
Sweet - I need a tune up
Sounds like a great thing.
My roll sucks. Learned in a too easy to roll boat, so could get away with bad technique. As a result I never really polished the technique.
So in less easy to roll boats I’m iffy. This of course leads to low confidence, which in turn leads to poor technique which leads to failed rolls.
It’s OK to blame the boat!
Hey Mint, Dubside (the great Greenland-style roller) says don't blame the boat, and he rolls enormous SOTs to prove that anything can be rolled. But life is too short to paddle really hard-to-roll boats. I found out the hard way that I couldn't roll or be Eskimo-rescued from a new cruising kayak I had bought. I'm short and sat way too deep. So I'm selling that one and I bought another with a much lower back deck. Rolls like a champ! I'm at that stage in life where there's not an infinite amount of time left for paddling kayaks. So I'm taking the easy way out -- and if that's dishonorable, I don't care. So I say, yes! Blame the boat and move on!
(And congrats to Rad for getting his roll back!)
G in NC
Annoying isn’t it?
My left side roll is among the usually-missing right now due to sheer lack of practice, so that side is feeling a little alien. But I have been thru this before, and every time it has been because I had been getting away with some sloppiness in one place because of a really strong hip snap (or whatever you want to call it). So of that starts getting weaker, there goes the roll. It's all in what I am (not) doing.
Working on sculling usually fixes it - if you can scull down on one side and up on the other in say 3 strokes per side, you got a roll. The approach usually taught with a GP incorporates much of this kind of move, but you can do it with a Euro too as long as you remember that the body angle may need to be a bit more centered out from the boat than with the layback.
Winter pool sessions are so perfect for fixing up this kind of thing - especially if there is a sauna in there space as well!
Not having much experience i can say
that i hopped in a friends NDK explorer and rolled it 1st time- she (an experienced roller) could not roll my Scorpio LV. It was only a couple attempts, but, it just goes to show that how deep you sit in a boat can make a huge difference. I am positive that if i ever can afford a better fitting boat, that i will progress so much faster in all aspects of kayaking.Don’t get me wrong, i am pretty happy with where i am at, i’m just saying.
CONGRATS on the roll…mine is a layback also.
:O)
C’mon,
tell us what technique change(s) made the difference…
Right
But I’m not blaming the boat, I’m blaming my technique.
I can roll all my boats. But one I can only roll when my technique is perfect, and usually it’s not.
we told you so!
congrats.
Several
First, an extended Pawlata style paddle position…
Slow down and really exaggerate the torso rotation…
Let the paddle come around due to my torso rotation as opposed to pulling it through the water with my lead hand…
Keep my back hand in position near my shoulder/chin and being very aware that I don’t push that hand forward…
Keeping my wrist from cocking down which coupled with the aforementioned pushing my back hand forward instead of at my shoulder was causing the paddle to immediately dive.
There really is zero hip snap or violent knee lift, it’s more of a steady pressure applied to the thigh brace by the lifting knee via the torso rotation.
boats can make a difference
but should never make the difference.
Some boats roll easier than others. If I am feeling unsure of my roll I use my Romany to rebuild confidence and skill. Once I am feeling good about my roll in the Romany, I feel positive and can roll most boats which are not inordinately wide or loose fitting.
We have 3 boats that are unusually kind rollers: Romany, Elaho DS, and Piedra. Were I working with someone learning to roll or trying to recover their roll I would want them in such a boat.
I’ve always said “hip snap”…
…should be irrevocably changed to “knee, or thigh torque”
knees and torso
I agree, “hip snap” has no place in Greenland rolling language. However in other types of rolling it is key.