Recently got my hands on my father-in-laws old Mad River Canoe. I am currently in the process of rebuilding it. New gunwales, seats, deck plates, etc.
Recently took it up to our local paddling store and they identified it as a Mad River Endurall. It was built in the 70's but they have not made it in quite some time. I have looked all over the internet but cannot find out any info on it.
Anyone here familiar with this boat. the guy at the paddling store thought there are probably not many of these boats out there anymore and that it was one of the first one built by madriver and somewhat of a classic.
Warsaw Rocket Your Endurall is Mad River’s version of the famous Warsaw Rocket - a hull designed, molded and sold to all comers by Uniroyal in Warsaw Indiana. It started the unfortunate wave of ABS canoes.
rubber I’ve never liked ABS boats much because it’s heavy and oil cans, so it’s inefficient in the water. Thos are both bad things.
It will take a different kind of beating than a top end composite boat, and it can be priced for beginning paddlers. Those are both good things.
The Warsaw rocket wasn’t a great design. Several companies designed better trippers and better WW hulls later, but it did prove the capabilities of that ABS sandwich.
One thing lordsponge needs to know about ABS is that it does not age as well as a good composite layup. I would not put massive amounts of rehabilitative effort into an old ABS hull, especially for whitewater use. Age seems to make the ABS layers more brittle.
However, I recall some really nice trips my wife and I made in borrowed Warsaw Rockets or the similar Blue Hole OCA hull. These hulls were a wonderful introduction to whitewater for many, back in the late 70s and early 80s. We knew thest boats weren’t sophisticated. If someone had asked if we wanted an ABS canoe to last a lifetime, we would have asked, WHY? We expected progress.
I’m a minor collector of really old composite whitewater boats. I wonder if people would want to nominate early ABS hulls that are really worth refurbishing because they still work well and have some historical significance.
The original mold… from which the Rocket and Endurall were made is STILL producing canoes. It’s in the hands of Buffalo Canoe. I belive they are in Arkansas somewhere and sell many, many hulls to livery outfitters in that part of the country. I heard the mold was in pretty tough shape some years ago, but it still keeps cranking them out.
WW Classics in ABS:
-MRC ME (John Berry design, founder of Mill Brook Boats)
-anything from the old/original Blue Hole
-Old Mohawk Vipers and Probes
-Dagger Encore, Impulse, etc.
-MRC Flashback and Fantasy (John Berry design)
-MRC Howler (high perfoamance tandem designed by John Kazmircheck (sp) now owner/designer of Mill Brook Boats)
These were all ABS canoes.
I have and old MRC KV Twister (solo slalom canoe) and a tandem Kevlar MRC Cyclone. Both are way too much fin in white water. Just don’t like pounding the rocks.
I am going to put new gunawales on it and an probably replace the seats as they are pretty bad shape. Hopefully the hull will hold out for a while.
heck - it was free. i am not going to take it on anything crazy. Just some easy rivers or lakes, do some overnight stuff, and maybe some light whitewater.
Same Mold As the Old Blue Hole’s? Interesting! Buffalo Canoes are produced in Jasper, Arkansas near the Buffalo River and, as you said, produce a lot of boats for liveries here in MO and AR. I’m curious, though, the guy at Buffalo said the mold for the 16’ was from the original Blue Hole Canoes. Were the Blue Holes produced from the Endurall mold?
I enjoy these conversations about old canoe designs and value the opinions of those of you out there building the boats us canoe fanatics have spent so many years enjoying! WW
I think… that several companies were selling canoes from that mold. As Charlie said, Uniroyal owned the mold and made hulls for several companies, all of which would have the hulls shipped in, outfit them their own way, and put their stickers on the side. Blue Hole may have been one of those companies doing this (what they call called their version I don’t know). Or, in the past few years, Buffalo my have aquired another old mold that was previously an original Blue Hole mold and that’s what they are using now. My guess is, though, that Buffalo is still using the orginal Uniroyal mold.
More info… I spoke with Jim Henry and he said that Blue Hole was getting hulls from Uniroyal. He wasn’t sure what they were calling it, though. After a while, Blue Hole made their own plug and mold off one of the originals and continued to make them for a while.
Jim Henry? Wow, I can’t imagine just picking up the phone and calling a “Legendary” canoe builder like Jim Henry; impresses the heck out of ME! As I said, long time canoe “Junkies” like me love that trivia. Take care! WW
He’s a neighbor… former employer, friend, mentor, and now designer of current and future canoes that we build/will build. He’s a salt of the earth and very approachable, but certainly not without opinions (like most p-netters).
If you’re ever in the Mad River Valley, give me some heads up and I bet I can take you up to his workshop…be prepared to drool.
The seats and gunwales used by Buffalo Canoes of Jasper Arkansas will fit the Endurall or any other canoe made from Uniroyal’s “rocket” mould. Though I use Buffalo Canoes’ 16-fitter a lot, I don’t particularly like their seats because I often want to kneel or sit right next to the gunwale and want a bench seat or kneeling thwart. I my two Buffaloes I have used for the tandem bow seat a wooden gunwale bought online or in a paddling shop with webbing which extends from gunwale to gunwale. The “Rocket” excells in its strength and versatility but requires for maximum efficiency a technique which differs from many more modern canoes. I like a flat-bottomed canoe with good initial stability because I like to be able to stand easily to pole, portage and standup paddle easily.
I love it when these old posts come back from the dead. It’s neat to read posts from folks like CEWilson on the “unfortunate wave of ABS canoes”.
It was a different time. Back then there were a bunch of people posting here who had paddled through the development of canoes from aluminum to fiberglass (and other composites) to ABS/Royalex. Most of them paddled high-end composite boats, and looked down on the ABS versions of those boats. Comments like CE Wilson’s “I’ve never liked ABS boats much because it’s heavy and oil cans, so it’s inefficient in the water. Thos are both bad things” were pretty common.
This post was 2008. I bought my Bell Yellowstone Solo in 2005. At that time, my options at the dealer near me were the ABS Yellowstone Solo or Mohawk Odyssey for around $800, or a beautiful composite Bell Wildfire (Black Gold, Cherry Trim) for $3,000. I purchased the Yellowstone Solo and never looked back. CEWilson did acknowledge that ABS boats “will take a different kind of beating than a top end composite boat, and it can be priced for beginning paddlers. Those are both good things”.
Now that ABS is gone, I think we are seeing the impact of not having an affordable, but still performance oriented canoe for beginners. Forking over 3-4K for a composite canoe isn’t in the cards for many new paddlers, just like it wasn’t for me in 2005, so people go elsewhere. I’m glad ABS was around when I started paddling, even if the old timer’s looked down on them.
The good news is, if you are dilligent, you can still find affordable ABS canoes used…
And even if you find one, the ABS eventually degrades I found a virtually unused 2004 Mad River Outrage - didn’t have a scratch on it. Not only have a put a few scratches on it, I went over a ledge and put a 3" crack right through the ABS underneath the pedestal. I put some duct tape on it, and I’m still paddling it until I do a more permanent fix. Even good ABS boats don’t last forever.