Pick up an older Mad River kevlar tandem canoe and an trying to find information on it. The hull # MADB231E888-K . I called Mad River/ Confluence and they said they were not sure because they didn’t have good records for a 1988 canoe. The canoe is 17" 35" at gunwales and is a rounded hull with very little flare or tumblehome . The person at Mad River said they thought it might be a Mintral which were made from 1988 to 1990. The the bow height is approximately 18.5" as well as the stern. Center depth is around 12" with slight amount of rocker. Any information will be appreciated.
It could be named Mistral
I may have misunderstood the name on the phone.
Pat Moore design, nice boat!
From 1990 MRC catalog
Mad River Minstrel:
Designer Pat Moore
6" freeboard capacity 1000 lbs
average weight: fiberglass-69lbs
gunwale width 35"
4" waterline width 32"
depth at center 12 1/2"
bow height 19"
stern height 19"
Description: “The traditional lines of the Minstrel appeal to recreational paddlers who appreciate classic styling as well as performance. The Minstrel’s length, combined with a shallow arch, asymmetrical hull design, enhances forward speed and glide, making for all-day cruising. The Minstrel is at home in chop due to a flared bow, while a slight rise of the keel line in the ends aids in maneuverability. Novice paddlers feel comfortable with the canoe’s strong initial stability. The Minstrel is a comfortable recreational canoe with an edge on performance. It is available in either Fiberglass or Hybrid versions.”
Boat pictured has wood gunwales with flush deck plates, a short carry handle thwart near each deck plate, bow and stern cane seats, and a single, simple thwart amidships. It’s hard to be sure but it looks slightly fishform in the picture. Stems are pretty square and it looks as if there are grommets in the hull stems, quite close to the gunwale line, to acommodate tie down or carry loops.
Peter Pond II
The original Moore Canoe built Peter Pond was a Howie LaBrant design. Pat Moore designed the PeterPond II for his own canoe company after his dad’s burned to the ground. Twice. The PPII was one of if not the first asymmetrical recreational tandems; a neat design.
Later, Pat licensed the PPII to MRC, who, for whatever reason, laminated it in the old Sawyer/Moore Canoe manner with roving interior, and if memory serves, the original split tube /crosspin rails.
It never sold well, because folks expected Mad River Canoes to be of stellar quality, and the price pointed laminate was heavy with obviously low tech materials compared to WeNoNah’s with which it shared a pricepoint.
I wish I had pumped Pat Moore for info
on whether and how he may have changed Vega/Moore designs when he had to resurrect them as Pat Moore canoes. For example, I have a Vega/Moore Voyageur that does not look like the Pat Moore Voyageur I have seen in a few pictures. I wonder whether it stayed symmetrical, or whether Pat used what he knew about asymmetrical design in his Voyageur.
I believe I was aware of the Moore 17’ boat when we ordered our Voyageur in '73. There were lots of home built Howie LaBrant clones in KY back then, often built for weekend racing as well as cruising.
I think the PPII came later than 73. I opened a retail shop in 73, brought in Sawyer, then Mad River in 74? and had dropped Sawyer, before picking up the Pat Moore line, mostly just the PPII by the mid-late 70’s. Neat boat, but it could never compare to that wood trimmed Malecite, so we eventually dropped Pat’s boats. It was a mystery to me why MRC tried the same marketing experiment a decade later. The PPII might have sold well in modern laminate, but it was always a little wide to be an ACA short class Down River racer.
You should have been at the
Nantahala in '74, when at the ww downriver, the boat inspector ruled that the flared hulls on the Moore Voyageurs (or were they Canadiennes?) violated the “no concavity” rule. Moore had to sit out a race that they should have won.
I knew the boat inspector personally. He felt he was caught by the language of the rules and could not do anything else.
Canoe Racing Rules
Seem to be promulgated by idiots who have a marginally tangential grasp of hydrodynamics or their effect. Concavity in the water generally slows a boat, but above water can improve seaworthiness.
Jensen designs basically "lawyered" USCA rules. Howie intended a cruiser that was a rational but high performance tripping boat. Every time some marginal Jensen design showed at nationals, the discussion was always "Well, we can't reject half the class!" So USCA race hulls now have wings that meet the letter of the rules but severely compromise seaworthiness and performance.
ICF sobered up, ~2000, and allowed anything the paddler can keep upright. At least no wings! And, it is stunning how much rocker those ICF hulls carry. SO much for the flat bottomed clan!
So it goes.
Mad River Minstrel
Thanks for the feedback on identifying the canoe. The specs listed are right on. Interesting it was a Pat Moore design! The canoe is the ultra light layup and I am replacing all the wood trim. The hull is in very good condition. I have a 1999 kevlar Malecite and it will be interesting to paddle and compare the canoes.