Magical Mystery Tour?

Paddlers' Place
#1

There was a topic about global warming that had some replies…one of which was me, but it has disappeared, so I assume it was deleted.
Over the years I’ve seen a lot of threads about global warming, so I know it’s something that is talked about here.

Before I invest my time and effort into making topics and conversation about things, I guess I’d like to know what happened to that?
Was it deleted?
If so, why? There was no abuse in it–not even arguing that I can remember-- and it seemed to fit into the community guidelines, so where did it go?

#2

Maybe because it was not directly related to paddling it fell off the list due to lack of interest.

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#3

I love this album even though many say it’s not actually an “album” since it was cobbled together from the original EP and some singles. But you gotta admit, Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane are two of the best pop songs ever recorded.

Oh wait… is this off topic? They do start out by singing, “Roll up……”

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#4

I am one of the volunteer moderators here, but was not the one to delete it, if that is what happened. But when I first saw it, I did seriously think of deleting it, and likely the other moderators had similar thoughts and one actually did.

There were basically 3 reasons for me thinking of doing it:

  • question was not related to paddling
  • question was super broad, which makes me wonder why it is even being asked
  • question was on a subject that is a battle ground in our current political climate, so I expected it would raise all sorts of responses, some of which will ruffle feathers and cause the conversation to go way off the rails.

On the last point - Long ago I learned that it is not polite to talk in public about politics or religion. In my mind, this should extend to things that have become part of our culture wars and that are used by one or both sides. Added to this, internet message boards are not the place for nuanced conversations.

Now, I am just a volunteer, so don’t make the rules here, so no one has to listen to this. I am going to try to follow the rules as set by the owners when I moderate.

6 Likes
#5

Then we DEFINITELY shouldn’t get into the whole John or Paul thing!

#6

I think a changing climate happens to impact paddling destinations and decisions. But also thought the question was more of a trolling attempt. As for the science I think what was being postulated in the 70s and 80s is showing up in today’s more extreme conditions and accelerating faster than those projections. I happen to trust the science more than talking heads. I too enjoy the songs on that album. The two mentioned are favorites of my family.

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#7

Two thumbs up for George and Ringo!

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#8

I don’t know if I’m still banned from replying, but I’ll try again for some reason.
Thank you for your response.
I did a quick search using “climate change” and there were more than 50+ threads on it, so I don’t think it was deleted for any of the reasons you or anyone else has stated.
What differentiated it was it didn’t follow the theories put forth by a certain political ideology. Thus it has been disappeared. But if we are to be honest, that’s what always happens in such circumstances.

So that does indeed affect paddling and people are interested in it. Just not anything outside of what they have been indoctrinated with.

Relatedly, I was going to start a thread on covid 19. Not related? I was here during that time and many people here did not go if they had to travel due to things being closed, businesses shut down…and their fear of carpooling with another person(s). Many businesses went out of business that cater to water activities. And equipment quality is still very low to not available.

Are people here aware that many of the ‘settled science’ put forth during covid were outright lies? Same authorities lying before have now changed their ‘settled science’, doing a 180.

I assume people doing the human propelled boating tend to look at themselves as independent minded people. Some I assume also think they are analytical and big picture people, especially those like me who live in rural places close to nature.

So how has any of these (now including the global warming) impacted them?
Changed how they view their choices in life?
Do they still have faith in those that were behind this?
Do they still believe them?

For me, these events have just reinforced my belief that govt is best left out of our lives, especially when it’s far off from where I put my paddle in, pitch a tent, have a fire.

I steer clear of others more now as the lockdowns, IMO, had some people just go bonkers. I’m more security conscious when camping/parking now.

Just some thoughts, which is what I thought paddler’s place was about.

#9

do you remember in the 70s-80s, anything they put out automatically got airplay? Ringo put out an album that IIRC he said he wished he didn’t have as it was terrible and he was drunk.
70s were a great time for music tho.
I listen to it while canoe camping*

*made it related to the board in general… :smile:

#10

If you are a believer in science, then you know that there’s no such thing as “settled science”, especially with something with a huge number of variables.
Science should always be open to challenging the result and that is done by logic and math. Data are put up and mathematical models used are also shown, so anyone else should be able to use that data and models and come up with the same result. This is mostly done by Peer Review, other science people running through it to see if it’s valid.

One huge red flag is if the science people are dependent upon grants to exist. If they are lead to believe that giving a desired outcome will enable $$ coming in, then the whole science is corrupted. That has happened in a lot of areas of scientific study. And Peer review is either bypassed or corrupted also.

I think the biggest problem with us humans is our brain being in a finite world. We therefore tend to view everything relative to our experience, our timeline.
I’m aware of this when I stand on a bank of a river and watch all the water flowing by. I’m always amazed that it keeps running, day, night, week by week, year by year, sometimes for centuries. It just comes out of the ground. It never ends. Yet in my finite mind, everything has to end because everything has to start. But the water just appears and keeps on flowing, never ending. That’s so amazing to me.

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#11

Your original question, if I remember right, was not at all what you detailed in this response. It was 1 sentence asking what people thought of climate change. If you had listed these questions above, it would have triggered me a bit less as it would have less of my second concern (being broad) and perhaps depending on what you asked, could have also perhaps had some more relation to paddling (concern 1).

Still would have had the issue about internet message boards not being good place for nuanced conversations. Conversations on subjects like this devolve way too fast. This means us volunteer moderators will end up moderating posts later, as people flag responses for various reasons.

Once again, only speaking for myself.

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#12

Wholeheartedly agree with Peter.

I figured the thread would go sideways but did not delete it.

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#13

I Am the Walrus is also an absolutely stellar song.

#14

“VLADIMIR ILYICH LENIN! DONNY, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!”

(Just kiddin,’ Dude.)

Walter
image

#15

I suppose you think that science is an indoctrination. I would agree that indoctrination into science is that you use a method to reduce the bias that each of us have when viewing reality. That ideas are tested with the results of experimentation and measured trends. Others can disagree with the conclusions and can demonstrate using the method to show those conclusions are wrong. If not those conclusions stand until they are shown through testing to be otherwise. Science is refined by doing so regardless of what one might want to believe.

I also suppose you would agree that ideas of economics, politics and religion are also exposed to indoctrination. But for the most part lack a method to eliminate bias.

I suppose economists do try to apply the scientific method where they can. I suggest it makes sense to put more stock into a system that is designed to reduce individual bias.

We have a balance of nature derived from a complex web of life resulting in a slowly changing equilibrium on a planetary scale. It seems apparent that one species is now having an accelerating impart on this equilibrium of ecology, species diversity, and physical systems such as hydrologic, atmospheric, and the geological surface on a planetary scale.

What I would like to see is a body of unbiased data that refutes this rather than some opposing indoctrination. That would certainly change my understanding. Until then I follow the science with a realization that it is a process that allows for changing conclusions based on the method that reduces individual bias.

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#16

Nicely stated. As a retired scientist, I agree with what you said.

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#17

You need to heal and get back to abnormal.

#18

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: reminds me of Abby Normal in Young Frankenstein! I suspect that most folks think of sticking a stick in the water to slowly move a boat as a bit abnormal when you can just put a motor on it and go fast. Long live these different strokes!
Paddle On

#19

Here is where we differ. BBS style allows for more characters, thus more ‘nuance’ can be put in. But if it’s about science, science isn’t nuanced. science shouldn’t be about massaging the numbers to meet a desired outcome. Yeah, often it is, but if anything, that shows why MORE discussion should take place about it rather than less, just stating something as a ‘fact’ and stopping there.
smart phone apps are more for the low information discourse. And communicating via cartoons/memes and slogans. But that’s how post boomer gens have moved to–which is another subject in itself.

In my experience (50 yrs) is the heckler is the one that gets their way. IIRC it’s the ‘hecklers veto’. A person is allowed to state what is acceptable and what isn’t…by their actions. Those disrupting discourse should not be allowed to end that discourse. It’s they themselves who have a problem with it, not the others who are engaging in it.
So why do mods give them power? It’s only from the left that instigates that. Why should a few of them dicatate what’s allowed and what isn’t to others?
answer: because the mods agree with the heckler’s ideology.

During covid, I was here and wrote a thread about carrying firearms when in the wilderness/camping/etc. A handful of us were having a good convo until some people chimed in asking for me to be banned, the subject deleted, etc. It was sort of amusing to witness, all the energy one account put into silencing/disappearing me/my thoughts/pov. When that didn’t happen, she started threads asking, begging, demanding others ignore me, my posts, etc. and chime in in agreement with her.

Did that relate to paddling? Nope. Not even remotely.
Did that relate to a political ideology’s demand for censorship/shunning/banishment? Yes. Most definitely.

Things like this are painfully apparent. But it’s not only acceptable, but demanded. I’ve seen it first hand since the 70s, by the same ideology.

Honesty is always the first casualty.
Now people have a lot more choices in media consumption and interaction. So places that are one sided,echo chambers tend to stagnate…and slowly die off as their core tribal members naturally do less…and/or die off themselves. I’ve seen a lot of BBS boards like this.

Anywho, I’m not here to give input to boards, how they are ran, etc. I just wanted to find out how much time and energy I would put into posting here. If a post I did the time and effort to do, turns into being deleted because a person doesn 't like it, then I’m wasting my time here.

Or, like what happened last time I was here–if I respond to ‘an aggressive heckler’, addressing the points instead of getting into personal stuff like that person did…only to have my non trolling replies deleted, then yes, that’s an even bigger waste of my time.

The mod that did that for all I knew was the person who was trolling/attacking me.

That’s all.
I just wanted to know the WHY of what happened.
And I, nor anyone else here, know
And who did it, will not come forth and state WHY that censorship took place.

So we don’t know who or why.
Well, other than the ‘why’ is because it wasn’t in agreement with the theories of the leftists.

So…can we now all agree, we know what kind of boar this is?
Who/what is acceptable here
and who/what is not.

I got my answer. Took a bit of time, but often, no answer is an answer.
I do appreciate you replying, twice though.
But if I were a mod (I was an admin before), I’d find the answer to the question asked. The post it.
But that’s the Military Business Libertarian background in me.

Again, thank you for your efforts.

#20

that whole psycho phase was all on yoko. Thus the joke about megan markle–she and yoko are the americans who broke up british families/bands.
I like the path george harrison went though. Would never want to go to india/bangledesh though.