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– Last Updated: Dec-21-10 7:06 PM EST –
5 feet and two inches and 90 lbs
Force III
I am now thinking about Impex Force 3 mainly because I see a reasonable price for a used one amd because it seems to be very low heigt at beam. Any further insight on this boat?
I have a friend who loves the Force 3
She is about 5’2", 135 pounds and absolutely LOVES her Impex Force 3. She has two other boats including an Avocet and Norkapp LV and she prefers the Force 3. She even sold her Anas Acuta because she liked the Impex better. I believe she said it was a boat that did many, many things well like tracking, turns and rolls.
One comment…
– Last Updated: Dec-24-10 11:12 AM EST –
The Force 3 is a good small person's boat. But re your friend's experience, the other boats are really not LV enough for someone that size. I am a smidge taller but the same weight and have paddled the others, including having a Nordlow in our own fleet. So while I am sure she is happier with the Force 3 than the other boats, it's a great boat, it's also the only you mention that is a good fit for someone that size.
When it comes to Low Volume…
It’s a matter of manufacturer’s interpretation. (My rookie paddling opinion) My friend who has a Tempest-165 tells me his boat is marketed as a LV. That’s another good boat to consider. I actually like that boat. After testing some LV and regular boats like the Quest LV, Explorere LV and the Cetus LV, I opted for the Cetus LV which was bigger than the Explorer LV and smaller than the Quest LV. I paddled the Avocet and I found it just as tight as the Explorer LV. My conclusion, the LV, MV, regular and HV label is a starting point when selecting a good fitting kayak. Celia’s input and advise has been very useful Just as Pikabike has been. In fact, everybody’s follow up has been very useful. This is why I LOVE this place!
I have a Force 3
– Last Updated: Dec-25-10 12:08 AM EST –
And a Shoreline (now Atlantic LV). I am 5 feet and 115 pounds. The Force is definitely lower volume than the Atlantic with a much tighter fit but less optimally placed thigh braces than the Atlantic for short legs, IMO.
They are very different feeling boats. The Force is much straighter tracking, the Atlantic feels more nimble and playful (whatever that means). Not sure which is faster because the shorter Atlantic feels easier to accelerate. Nothing can substitute for trying them.
I have never paddled any Avocet, Romany or Explorer model. I've sat in a regular Avocet, felt big and tall. (The boat, not me.)
LV relative to…
General comment on some stuff above - the marketing of boats around this term has been very, very fuzzy. The only reliable rule that I have found is that the “LV” versions of a boat are designed in ways that make them suitable for a paddler smaller than the paddler that’ll fit the regular size of the boat. The average paddler used to be a person 5’10" and 180-190 pounds. So that’s usually a guy, with male proportions of torso and leg lengths as well. And aside from butt size issues, the majority of very active women paddlers likely need a (truly) low volume boat.
How the LV version is rendered is all over the map. The newer boats include a changed hull, but it also has referred to boats where they messed with cockpit fit and left the hull alone.
But the biggest thing that messes this up is the size of the “regular” version of the boat to which the LV refers. Manufacturers not uncommonly put out new models with a recommended paddler size that ends up being off when actual paddlers try it. So the regular size is a really big person’s boat, or the “LV” version is really an “MV” (middle volume). The Cetus is a good example. The boat was originally marketed as sized for the average paddler, but every paddler that I knew of average or even bigger size found it to be loose and voluminous. The LV of that is really an LV, but there was plenty of room in downsizing to stick an MV in the middle.
The Norkapp LV is one that is really an MV. While it could be fitted out to work for a small paddler, it isn’t really a small paddler’s boat on the order of boats like the Vela, the Pilgrim or the Cetus LV.
Talking about boats like the Tempest 165, that is a low volume boat IF you are that average sized paddler. For someone my size, it is just right, not at all low volume.
The term LV would work if manufacturers and people tended to clarify things like the relative scale of the regular size boat, or place themselves on the size scale when talking about what low volume is. Unfortunately this doesn’t happen, so it gets pretty muddled.
correct
On the other hand Impex Force 3 HV is probably not enough high volume for large paddlers.
What is the difference between an Impex
Force 3 HV and a Force 4?
Yup, LV compared to what…
It seems common for manufacturers to build over volume boats and then have to adjust their terminology to paddler’s experience.
The Argonaut (now Aquanaut HV) was initally marketed as a boat for the average size paddler and when the Aquanaut appeared is was for the smaller paddler. Howver, many (myself at 6’, 185 included) found the Aqunanaut the right volume and the Argonaut too big.
The original Cetus was supposedly for average/medium paddlers, but many found it too big so now there are 2 smaller versions - MV and LV.
The Nordkapp LV while marketed as an expedition boat for smaller paddlers is a favorite boat of many average/medium ones - in this case the volume is much lower than a standard 'kapp, but the cockpit is the same.
About the only somewhat reliable thing the designation ‘LV’ seems to mean is that the boat is in someway adjusted from the standard version to accommodate smaller paddlers or lighter loads.
BTW: A Tempest 165 seems if anything a bit higher volume than a standard Romany.
Youtube hits Force 3 hits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCt4yA5z5Tc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6VgV42ZfSM
I paddle a Force 4 now. It is just a tad more volume than I prefer.I would’ve love to have tried a 3HV prior to my purchase.But, my dealer only had a 3 ,4, & 5.The Force 5 was huge. Tried the fit of a Force 3 , but it was to tight for my thighs. I would of loved to have tried a 3HV at that time. May have been just right. Interested in the Cetus MV/LV. Hope to try them at East Coast Festival in the spring.
Aquanaut LV
Is the Aquanaut LV an LV?
What paddler size do you mean?
As I mentioned above, the Aquanaut LV is low volume compared to the regular one. But you didn’t state a paddler size to get a sense of what you think “LV” is, so your question can’t be answered.
I haven’t managed to get into one myself yet, but a person we know who has an Aquanaut LV outweighs me by probably 40 to 50 pounds and while hardly a huge person, literally can’t get thru the cockpits of either of my sea kayaks. So I’d be surprised if I got into an Aquanaut LV and found it to fit the way my Vela does, for example. It could operate like a low volume boat for a lot of guys though.
So what do you mean by LV?
Nordkapp LV
When I tried one, the thigh braces were placed way too far forward for a short person like me (just under 5’3"). It made a too-big boat feel even bigger than it really was.
Cetus LV
The boat itself is not that big, but the large cockpit and seat should be downsized for small paddlers. It’s long, but it is, after all, a camping boat.
LV
Low volume for 5’ 4" , 140lbs Aquanaut LV?
Force 3 / Force 4
Jim
The F3 hull is 17’x20"
The F4/F5 hull is 18’x20.75"
The F3 HV deck is .75" taller than the F3 deck.
As to model to model and the varying definitions of LV-ishness; Your Mileage May Vary. (thankyou for the handy phrase tvcrider)
See you on the water
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY
www.the-river-connection.com
PS my wife’s UL F3 needs a good home as she’s usually playing with her Cetus LV.
Cetus LV/MV vs Scorpio LV
I paddle a P&H Scorpio LV as well as my Force 4.The Scorpio LV fits like a glove. How does the Cetus’s LV/MV rate in fit compared to my Scorpio LV. I had a regular Scorpio last year,it was to much volume.If I add another yak,the Cetus LV/MV is in the running.
I’m guessing but…
– Last Updated: Dec-26-10 5:38 PM EST –
I am just half an inch shorter and 5 pounds lighter than that, and as I said the guy who has an Aquanaut LV locally can't get thru the cockpit of either my Vela or my Explorer LV. So it is just a guess, but given the size of the full version (we have one in our own fleet) and the size of the guy who has the LV, I would not expect an Aquanat LV to really be LV for someone in my size range. I suspect it'd be something that I could make work with padding, similar to the situation with the Nordlow, but that's not the same as a really good fit.
For my/that size, I'd put the following sea kayaks on the list for fit. I have either paddled these or am the same size as paddlers who I have met and use them. They are not in any particular order, and I am sure I am forgetting some. And I am not suggesting that these boats would feel low volume to someone in my size range, as in feeling quite small. To get to that you may need to hunt up something like an old WS Sparrow Hawk, or build your own.
P&H Vela or Cetus LV, though check the cockpit length in the Cetus LV. Also Scorpio LV. Maybe check out their newest boats, the Delphin/Aries but I've not even been in the presence of one of these boats.
Foster Rumour, Silhouette
Impex Force 3, or Mystic
Necky Eliza
Dagger Alchemy (smaller one)
CD Suka, look at Willow or Cypress but you'd really have to get into the latter two to check the fit
NDSK Pilgrim (expedition or day boat)
TideRace, the smallest one but I forget how it is designated
Valley Avocet LV
Wilderness Systems Tempest 165
I don't know the QCC line well but apt boats for small people have been listed in other threads here.
Very important to note - some of these boats are trackers, some are more playful - there's a whole further layer of considerations in making sure a boat not only fits physically but also meets your performance needs.
Probably
The Cetus MV based upon the fit range of your Scorpio and Force 4. As with any boat fit, fit it in person rather than electronically.
See you on the water,
Marshall
The River Connection, Inc.
Hyde Park, NY