mirror on wall which is LVest of them al

For a paddler with the tiniest butt…which LV brit boat is the best fit? Tahe Marine is not really a brit boat but it seems like the best idea so far for the paddler I am trying to help.

more info (the usual)
What type of kayak (playful, tracking, ect…) and skill level are we talking about?

Nigel Foster Rumor is small but not for the faint of heart, Avocet LV, Romany LV, some of the North Shore kayaks, maybe some Tiderace boats.

Lots of options out there but I shop at the other end of the spectrum.

cetus lv versus aquanaut lv
Which of the two has lower deck?

Playful vs straigt tracking or compromise between the two is not important at qthis point. The fit is my primary concern right now.

best fit
The best fit is what fits you best, has nothing to do with what fits someone else best. Go try them.

Bill H.

Cockpit fit or overall volume?
It seem from your post that you are talking cockpit fit. If so, I’d put the Avocet LV and Romany LV on the list. If you are talking volume to match, the Avocet LV stays. The Rumour does not have as tight a fit as either of the above, since it lacks thigh braces. Cetues LV is nice and narrow but not tiny.

Adding to many here…
I agree 100% with Celia. The Romany LV is a true low volume. The rumor feels a little bigger and the Explorer LV is also a true LV expedition boat. The Quest LV…well, it’s LV in comparison to the regular LV. My Cetus LV is borderline LV. I find the fit very similar to the Tempest 16. Tiderace Xcite-S also felt like a true LV but with a generous length.

Not exactly re the Romany

– Last Updated: Dec-19-10 10:05 AM EST –

I must have been unclear above. The Romany LV is NOT a hull of any lower volume than the regular Romany. Same situation with the Explorer, which is why NDK came out with the Pilgrim series which are actually lower volume hulls. Narrower beam than the Romany/Explorer series and a bit shorter in the equivalent boats (day, expedition). Apparently faster too, though I have yet to get someone out of one long enough to try it myself.

In the Romany and Explorer LV's, they did not alter the hull. They lowered the deck and put in extra small cockpits, which are a great fit for smaller people since NDK has an aggressive keyhole shape. As has been said in other threads when the NDK silliness starts, at the point in time they did this they were alone with CD among the bigger names in trying to meet the needs of this market. So kudos to them for what they did at the time they did it. But things have improved in the last 15 plus years and a low volume person has a lot of choices now.

So a tiny person will have a fairly good chance at finding a decent cockpit fit in a Romany LV. But they will be paddling the same volume as a regular sized guy in the normal version (or the HV). I don't know about the cockpit fit in the Pilgrim, but I know at least one person shorter than myself who has been happy with it.

My recall of the fit in the Avocet LV was that it was pretty low and tight, a bit longer than the extra small cockpits but still quite fitting.

thank you celia
Good info. I suppose a lower volume not sacrificing length (16 ft or ponger) would be also welcome. I like the suggestion for the avocet so far.

Seat could be swapped out

– Last Updated: Dec-19-10 1:08 PM EST –

If butt size is the controlling factor, find the best-fitting seat and put that in one of the low-volume, narrow boats, whichever one he/she likes best apart from the seat question.

The best seat for my butt has been the Pilgrim/Pilgrim Expedition's new glass seat. (They make two sizes, of which the smaller one is standard in P/PEx). The hulls are also a great fit for small paddlers because they're narrow. The knee bumps make the low deck feel bigger than it is--which your friend may or may not like.

With no additional padding out, I found the Romany LV cockpit fit to be snuggest. After a full day in that boat I preferred having a smidge more vertical room (which the Explorer LV has). The snug fit was great for extreme edging angles but not the most comfortable for all-day paddling. And it's a wider boat than a really small, light paddler needs for stability/comfort. OTOH, it (Romany LV) is super-fun in the maneuverability department. And that is how we end up with too many boats...

Is pintail bigger in volume than the aforementioned lv boats?

The early Pilgrims were, for some reason, marked as Romany LV, but you are right that Romany LV is the same Romany with lowered deck.

SKUK Pilgrim, on the other hand, is a fun boat. Whether it is a good fit for some unknown person of unknown size and unknown skills but with the desire for low front deck is for that person to decide.


– Last Updated: Dec-19-10 2:18 PM EST –

The one I rented one day was definitely big in the cockpit area, both width-wise and depth-wise. Too big for me.

Others have posted that the ones they paddled had different cockpit dimensions. Obviously, there's the ocean cockpit version, but there might be other diffs depending on model year. Pintail fans will probably chime in here.

Might try an Anas Acuta
Smaller then my Pintail, the OC model is nice and snug… if you can go non Brit a Betsie Bay Idun might work for you

brit, or brit style?

– Last Updated: Dec-19-10 3:35 PM EST –

Betsie Bay Aral or smaller model
NF Silhouette
CD Rumour

Do you want a turny brit-style boat, or a straighter tracking brit-style boat?

Is said butt proportional to the body? How tall is the body attached to this butt, and how long are the legs leading up to the butt?

Impex Force 3, P&H Vela, the small Seda Ikumma (sp?), old P&H Sirus, old Wilderness Systems Sparrow Hawk…

The list will get longer and longer before it gets shorter

As pikabike said…
Much deeper than the Avocet LV, likely a couple of others. The Pintail is also a questionable choice for a newer paddler. New paddlers usually prefer a boat that will aid them in going straight - that is simply not what the Pintail is about. Great fun and all, but if your friend is a newer paddler or wants a boat that wind won’t blow all over the map, the Pintail would not be a good match.

If we are ever together where I have my Pilgrim Expedition, you’re welcome to paddle it.

AvocetLV vs Pilgrim
I’ve paddled both boats – the “smaller” Pilgrim for a day in Wales – and I own an AvocetLV, which I decided to buy over the Pilgrim.

I also have owned both a ExplorerLV and a RomanyLV and Celia is right about the design. However, both boats fit me very well.

The Pilgrim has that very reassuring, very confidence building feel natural to NDK. I really loved the boat but I also love my AvocetLV. The cockpit in the AvocetLV is a bit longer and less “keyholey” than the Pilgrim, but both work for me and I’m relatively short legged with a long torso.

If your friend is a beginner paddler, I’d recommend the Pilgrim over the AvocetLV. While it’s not a twitchy boat by any means, it also, unlike the Pilgrim, doesn’t give you a whole lotta warning before you turn turtle. This is probably why the AvocetLV is considered to be a “playful” boat, although the Pilgrim isn’t exactly boring or a stolid 16"+ piece of FG in the water, especially turbulent water by any means.

As for the Pintail: It’s not really a low volumn kayak. I love the boat – my husband has one and I love to paddle it – but it’s a bit big for both of us, although it’s a 1992 model with an OC.

I also had a Vela, which was the option at the time for the smaller paddler. While it’s fun, playful and fast, it didn’t fit me all that well and I found the egg-shaped cockpit to be very large.

What you need to do, as everyone else has said, is have your friend try various boats on for size and in different conditions. That’s the only way friend will find out what works.

Plan to if I can get there…
travel seeming tough again this winter, commitments up here and all. But yes, I will happily try out your boat if/when we connect.

Yet more
to add to the

Impex Force 3

Cetus LV

add in the North Shore Atlantic LV

and then in late Spring 2011 in plastic the Aspect RM LV.

How tiny is this butt you’re fitting into a kayak?

See you on the water,


The River Connection, Inc.

Hyde Park, NY