Moving QCC seatpan

Done! (?)
After sitting in the kayak out in the yard and trying a lot of variations I think I found a sweet spot. Ended up being about where the newer Q700 seat is positioned - a full 3" forward.



Of course dry land is a stupid place to evaluate seat placement, but on water testing will have to wait until tomorrow. If I screwed up I should know pretty quickly.



How bad can the trim be with the seat now placed where the current production ones are? Any of you 3rd generation Q700 owners have trim issues? Hex? JackL? Anyone?



By my less than advanced naval engineering guesstimates it should be a little faster and a little more maneuverable. With better thigh contact on the braces and a layback more possible it might roll easier too. I can hope anyway. Most likely downside is a little less tracking (has tracking to spare) and a bit more weathercocking, but I don’t use the skeg much now - so if I need it a bit more in wind it’s no big deal.



I still have some finish issues, like what to do with the now floating seat posts, but I’ll deal with that after testing (if I don’t have to rip it back out and start over).

more weathcocking might be a good thing
Kris - glad to hear you’ve finished another succesfull project that I can copy, now that you’ve done the mental work (poached your trim tab idea too!).



You mention a concern about weathercocking, IMO, a slight weathercock would not be a bad thing, as you are already equipped with a skeg. You’ve told me I’m crazy in the past for this, but I have eyewitnesses that will verify a slight leecock when still or moving very slowly fwd. I also have the same generation 700 as you do, and feel that the seat was moved way too far back. A slight modification that will correct this design flaw will make a great boat even greater IMO.



anyway - look forward to me bugging you via email for specifics!!! Now if I could just get QCC to be as responsive as you have been!


Leecocking? With skeg all the way up?
I still don’t see how that’s possible on the version with cockpit 8" aft!



The original Q700 with centered cockpit maybe, as it was designed for full hatches - with aft hatch usually holding bigger heavier stuff.



If you’re leecocking now - be careful with seat moves. No way to really balance for leecocking without the active turning force of a rudder.



Mine always weathercocked a little - as intended - and still does after the seat move.

First test paddle good
Did about 18 miles today, 17 of it a loop I’ve done several times. Very mild conditions and lots of boat traffic.



Dirty water marks on the hull afterward look great. Right where I wanted it. Glad I went the full 3". Bow is down about an inch - stern up almost as much, with the line running 1/4" or so below the rear logo. Pretty similar amount or boat submerged at both ends.



The boat definitely feels different, but it will take some time to be able to quantify that - and by then I’ll be used to it!



Initial impressions -



Speed: I does seem a little faster. I had GPS, but entire course paddled has varying current so it’s very hard to say. In all, with todays current/conditions I estimate my time should have been maybe ten minutes below my best so far - but ended up being 3 minutes faster. Really hard to tell, but one way or another I shaved off some time even though I didn’t catch the currents as well as the last few times.



Handling (nothing drastic - all pretty subtle): It seems more responsive, but also maybe a little easier to broach (?) - but this is very minor. It used to want to keep turning once started, and now goes back on line easier. Tracking remains plenty strong. Still weathercocks slightly (good) from what I could tell in todays light wind. Bow is of course 1" more likely to dive - but with all that volume who cares! Seems to hold speed a little easier cutting through wakes. Stability seems unaffected - and I have the braces farther back on my thighs now which seems better. One busy section of river where it get tight and busy I easily held speed and cut through the reflected wakes and chop like it wasn’t there - it was good that way before, but it seemed even better.



In all, same great boat - with a slight attitude adjustment.



The seat flexes a little now as it is only on the front/rear flanges and not solid at the sides (no seat post support). Seems OK for now, but I may work on this a bit later on and do something about the floating posts too - maybe also re-drill new holes for the back band, etc. For now, nothing needs immediate attention.



Only thing I overlooked - I’m 3" closer to the GPS mount! It was a little hard to reach before so not really a bad thing - as long I I don’t whack it with the paddle more. Seemed OK today.

I should also add cautions
I’m 5’9". Taller folks might not like the cockpit like this - and would probably have to scoot in. Depends on backband a bit too. I can lift a knee out - but I did sand down the sharp edge on the coaming as my shin can graze it getting out. Another differnce that I’ll adapt to and will probably be forgotten in short order. Still roomy compared to the Pintail.



Also - a reminder that there are three cockpit versions of the Q700: 1st had the cockpit centered. 2nd had it move aft 8". Current is 3" forward of that - or 5" aft of center. Mine is the second - and as such has a lot more room to mess with this without negative consequence to handling. In effect, I now have a second generation kayak with a third generation seat location.



Only consider this sort of move if you know which you have - and have a pretty good idea what will happen. Like most of my modifications - this was done to specifically fit me and the way I paddle.

3rd Generation Owner
with seat in your current position. Trim is fine for my 6’1", 193 lbs. Like you said-so much volume-who cares? Friends assisted in gauging trim for me, and I experimented with water jugs in front, rear, front/rear hatches. Ended up back at stock, pretty well balanced this way, but still sits too high in the water due to overall volume. I’ve found it does have a tendency to weathercock slightly, but this is desirable; you can trim that easily. Full skeg should bring you to full leecock-fun for downwind surfing runs. That cockpit coaming is sharp, even after sanding. Have scars on both shins after the Run of the Charles Race that I keep opening up practicing cowboy rescues. Can you support the undersides of the seat with minicell to prevent significant flex?

Bulkhead
Kris,

Are you going to have to play with the front bulkhead?

Honest Injun
why so hard to believe? With the CG so far aft, the stern is anchored untill I get moving fast enough to “loosen” it up. Once up to 2 knots (est) will weathercock a slight bit. With some ballast up front however, the boat weathercocks in a nicely predictable fashion, which can easily be controlled via skeg trim.



Am I the only one here who thinks slight weathercocking is a good thing???

Not at all
The bulkhead was 15" in front of the ball of my foot on the pegs. Now it’s 12". They really need to move that bulkhead back (it’s put in even better than the seat)!



I removed the foot pegs a year or so ago and filled all that space with minicell. Only difference now is one less 3" section of foam (and an insane amount of space behind the seat). If I still had rails/pegs - I would have had 3" more I could have moved them as I had the pegs somewhere mid-rail.

Some pictures

– Last Updated: Jan-30-05 10:01 PM EST –

http://community.webshots.com/album/263402070XeWsVl

Sorry, not much to take pictures of when all I did so far was take seat out, move forward, and re-glue. Already had the seat out before I though to grab the camera.

Spray skirt
Pretty far to the back coaming now, any issues with skirt tunnel location? One of the things that would concern me about making any significant seat repositioning.



Sort of curious how the seat was joined to the side hangers originally.



Mike


Skirt
QCC seats are placed farther to rear of the opening than most kayaks.



Before the move the skirt was slack behind me and shorter up front (as in pulling me forward - OK, but noticable). Now tension is pretty balanced, but center of seat is a little forward of center of tunnel. I had no issues with the skirt over 18 miles yesterday - so far so good.



Seat posts were attached directly to the sides of the seatpan before.


Attached, but
how? Was it all one piece or a bead of glue or what? Couldn’t really tell from the pictures, but there didn’t seem to be much of an overlapping area for gluing.



Mike

Bead
With the seat in stock position the bottom edge of the post meets up along the side of the pan. The pan also has a littel extra glass there underneadth that forms a little ledge/reinforcement at the side (no more than a couple mm). There was a bead of adhesive along the whole joint.

Ok, thanks
just trying to relate this to the design in my boat where the sides of the seat pan extend upward and are riveted to the posts extending down from the coaming.



Mike